Coaching options

[PacersPride]

this topic may be a year early but was wondering who pacer fans would like to see replace JOB as coach? presuming we have a top 15 pick next year and can land a top 4 point guard in the draft, also add some talent to the roster via FA or trade, along with the cap space, and in essence appear attractive to some top notch coaches.

some names ive heard come up include Sam Mitchell, Mark Jackson, and Scott Skiles to name a few.

personally i like the Scott Skiles idea, but am certainly open to suggestion. anyone else have ideas on who they would like to see replace JOB as coach of the pacers next year?

im going out on a limb here and stating JOB will not be in the running for the COY award.

[O'Bird]

Re: Coaching options

this topic may be a year early but was wondering who pacer fans would like to see replace JOB as coach?

some names ive heard come up include Sam Mitchell, Mark Jackson, and Scott Skiles to name a few.

I have not heard any good arguments to replace Jim O'Brien.

What makes you think that Scott Skiles (whom I love, by the way) is available?

:

[MillerTime]

Re: Coaching options

this topic may be a year early but was wondering who pacer fans would like to see replace JOB as coach? presuming we have a top 15 pick next year and can land a top 4 point guard in the draft, also add some talent to the roster via FA or trade, along with the cap space, and in essence appear attractive to some top notch coaches.

some names ive heard come up include Sam Mitchell, Mark Jackson, and Scott Skiles to name a few.

personally i like the Scott Skiles idea, but am certainly open to suggestion. anyone else have ideas on who they would like to see replace JOB as coach of the pacers next year?

im going out on a limb here and stating JOB will not be in the running for the COY award.

Sam Mitchell is an assistant for the Nets now. I would like to see Lawrence Frank or Jeff Van Gundy

[Sookie]

Re: Coaching options

Bill L.

I think we've got the perfect set of young guys for him to coach. It'd be a good situation for him and the team. Not to mention, he's proven he's a good coach.

[Justin Tyme]

Re: Coaching options

I have not heard any good arguments to replace Jim O'Brien.

You might want to look in the archives at ALL the fire O'Brien threads.

[Kegboy]

Re: Coaching options

Scott's got too good a thing going. It's certainly possible it could fizzle out like Chicago did, but I think he's there for a while.

I like Sam, but I need to go with what I said last go 'round. No retreads! We missed the boat on some great assistants last time, we need to take a hard long look at guys like Ty Corbin and Mike Budenholzer.

[O'Bird]

Re: Coaching options

You might want to look in the archives at ALL the fire O'Brien threads.

I said "good arguments".



There's an echo chamber here.

.

[Bball]

Re: Coaching options

Before thinking about the next coach you really need to consider the possibility that the FO isn't as fed up with O'Brien as the majority of Pacer Nation. Also, the little story about Bird being PO'ed at his Celtic teammates back in the day for giving up on the coach might add some stubbornness to the decision to keep O'Brien around.

Everyone seems to have their own twist on thinking why O'Brien is still here and most of them assume the FO wants him gone as bad as the majority of us. But whatever the reason he's still here there's always the possibility it's because Bird, Simon, et al actually want to keep him around.

[PacersPride]

Re: Coaching options

I have not heard any good arguments to replace Jim O'Brien.

What makes you think that Scott Skiles (whom I love, by the way) is available?

:

first point would be Bird has stated before that after 3 years a coach loses his team more along the way. after this season JOB will have been here 4 seasons. so there is at least one good reason Bird may consider replacing him. i can think of plenty more but no need to spend the effort.

i would ask, what then does JOB need to do to keep his job after this season.. is 42 wins good enough to keep him around? anything less than 40?

i think anything less than a playoff team and JOB is gone, and i happen to think this team is good enough to get in. i still think for the reason i listed above that Bird will be looking to make a change soon.. unless there are zero coaches out there that interest him JOB will not be around after next season barring an unbelivable performance.

[PacersPride]

Re: Coaching options

Bill L.

I think we've got the perfect set of young guys for him to coach. It'd be a good situation for him and the team. Not to mention, he's proven he's a good coach.

Bill L.??

bill laimbeer.. lol

i hope like h3ll your not referring to that clown..

[Pacersalltheway10]

Re: Coaching options

Before thinking about the next coach you really need to consider the possibility that the FO isn't as fed up with O'Brien as the majority of Pacer Nation. Also, the little story about Bird being PO'ed at his Celtic teammates back in the day for giving up on the coach might add some stubbornness to the decision to keep O'Brien around.

Everyone seems to have their own twist on thinking why O'Brien is still here and most of them assume the FO wants him gone as bad as the majority of us. But whatever the reason he's still here there's always the possibility it's because Bird, Simon, et al actually want to keep him around.

or because it would saved the Pacers money at the time. If they actually wanted to keep him around , why give him only a 1 year extension?

[McKeyFan]

Re: Coaching options

im going out on a limb here and stating JOB will not be in the running for the COY award.

I hope he wins COY.

Seems to guarantee that he will be fired shortly thereafter.

[McKeyFan]

Re: Coaching options

Before thinking about the next coach you really need to consider the possibility that the FO isn't as fed up with O'Brien as the majority of Pacer Nation. Also, the little story about Bird being PO'ed at his Celtic teammates back in the day for giving up on the coach might add some stubbornness to the decision to keep O'Brien around.

Everyone seems to have their own twist on thinking why O'Brien is still here and most of them assume the FO wants him gone as bad as the majority of us. But whatever the reason he's still here there's always the possibility it's because Bird, Simon, et al actually want to keep him around.

I hear ya, but not me. It's always been clear that JOB is here because Bird wants him here.

I think Bird has some good qualities. But I think he's missing a few screws when it comes to relationship intangibles.

He was a great individual competitor, and that is showing up in his stubbornness to reach $30 million in cap space next summer. But that ability to focus in a narrow way I think may cause him to be blind to a lot of peripheral, important goings on between coach and players that hurts morale, momentum, and consistency.

If you read Bird's two books, you'll see that, when it comes to relationships, he's actually a softie. And this hurts him as a gm. When he was a player, he wasn't dealing with relationships. He was dealing with a basket and a defender. In that situation, he was ruthlessly successful.

[O'Bird]

Re: Coaching options

Before thinking about the next coach you really need to consider the possibility that the FO isn't as fed up with O'Brien as the majority of Pacer Nation.

Well, they put their money where their mouths are, so it seems to be more than a possibility.

Everyone seems to have their own twist on thinking why O'Brien is still here and most of them assume the FO wants him gone as bad as the majority of us.

I think that you hear more dissent about the FO than you used to, too. A recent post identified Larry Bird's failings as: 1) Retaining O'Brien; 2) Calling Troy Murphy last year's team MVP.

David Morway compared trading Jermaine O'Neal's contract to turning an aircraft carrier around; that's an apt analogy for the whole roster, except that it's a much bigger job - more like, say, turning an entire aircraft carrier battle group around.

This team can be special, but there's a lot of training and development to be done, and yet another personnel sort to go through next summer. The scouting has been phenomenal, and the roster is loaded with potential, including star potential. The coaching staff has done a terrific job of creating roles for their players and in developing their skills, and the players have responded with an impressive work ethic. Team defense took a big step forward this past season, even with the injuries; that's a credit to the coaching staff, too, maybe the most significant accomplishment.

Coaches don't play the game, players do. As Red Auerbach said, you've got to have the horses.

:

[O'Bird]

Re: Coaching options

first point would be Bird has stated before that after 3 years a coach loses his team more along the way. after this season JOB will have been here 4 seasons. so there is at least one good reason Bird may consider replacing him. i can think of plenty more but no need to spend the effort.

"loses his team more along the way"? - it's not obvious what you mean by this. But one thing is obvious: the fact that coaches often, or even usually, lose a team after three years doesn't mean that they will lose a team. I don't think that you're claiming that Bird thinks you have to change coaches every three seasons. The question is not what often happens, but what IS in fact happening.

And THAT is what you consider a good argument for replacing Jim O'Brien? A bit theoretical, wouldn't you say? I seem to be saying this a lot: what else have you got?

i would ask, what then does JOB need to do to keep his job after this season.. is 42 wins good enough to keep him around? anything less than 40?

This is a really excellent question. I doubt that a benchmark like 41 wins or whatever has been set, nor should it. The players have to win the games, so it depends on the players' effort - your point above about "losing" the team. The coaching staff can teach and inspire, and demand certain things like effort on defense, but that's for nought if you don't have the talent. On the other hand, if the coaching staff loses the team, then it doesn't matter how talented they are.

A coach has to demand accountability. TJ Ford got benched because he wasn't getting the job done. There may be a "toxic" relationship between TJ and coach right now, but do you think that he shouldn't have been benched? I think that coach did the right thing. It would help the relationship with the team, if I'm reading the situation right (like you, from quite a distance), if Ford were traded before the season.

i think anything less than a playoff team and JOB is gone, and i happen to think this team is good enough to get in.

Here's a different view:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/news/...kings-4-100803

17. Indiana Pacers | Future Power Rating: 497
PLAYERS MANAGEMENT MONEY MARKET DRAFT
126 (25th) 85 (16th) 167 (1st) 38 (21st) 81 (4th)

And I happen to think that the roster has some promising young talent, and that it will blossom over the next few seasons (Roy Hibbert already has advanced by leaps and bounds). But this team relies on journeymen and young players for big responsibilities and big minutes. Earl Watson, Brandon Rush, Roy Hibbert, Dahntay Jones, and Tyler Hansbrough (when healthy) all played significant minutes; and that is not a recipe for getting into the playoffs. Fans tend to overvalue their own team's players, of course, especially draft picks.

Having said that, your comment about the importance of a playoff appearance is well taken. The Pacers need to get there this year because of the financial plan they have in place. That is not only the coaching staff's responsibility, though. You've got to have the horses, and last year the Indiana Pacers did not. They might have made it anyway given better health; that's because the team is well-coached and has been over-achieving. I'm obviously not alone in that assessment - see the link above that rated the Pacers' personnel 25th out of 30.

: