sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

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  • naptownmenace
    Member
    • Jan 2004
    • 5753

    #76
    Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

    Originally posted by aaronb
    Pacers Roster when Bird took over



    No. Player Pos
    23 Ron Artest F
    24 Jonathan Bender F
    2 Jamison Brewer G
    27 Primoz Brezec C
    44 Austin Croshere F
    10 Jeff Foster F-C
    14 Tim Hardaway
    3 Al Harrington
    20 Fred Jones G-F
    5 Ron Mercer G-F
    52 Brad Miller C
    31 Reggie Miller G-F
    7 Jermaine O'Neal F-C
    21 Erick Strickland G
    11 Jamaal Tinsley G


    Artest and O'Neal were hands down better than anyone on this roster. This core went on to have the best record in the NBA the following season.
    That's not the roster when Bird took over. Most of those guys had been gone for a couple of seasons before Walsh left and Bird became the sole decision-maker. Donnie Walsh was the GM with Indy until April of 2008.

    Here's the correct roster from 2006-07:

    24 Darrell Armstrong G
    9 Maceo Baston F
    6 Marquis Daniels G-F
    1 Ike Diogu F
    17 Mike Dunleavy F-G
    10 Jeff Foster F-C
    33 Danny Granger F
    5 Orien Greene G
    32 Al Harrington F
    13 David Harrison C
    1 Stephen Jackson F
    3 Sarunas Jasikevicius G
    2 Rawle Marshall G-F
    20 Keith McLeod G
    3 Troy Murphy F
    7 Jermaine O'Neal F-C
    22 Josh Powell F
    11 Jamaal Tinsley G
    4 Shawne Williams F

    Checkout the latest Indiana Pacers Roster and Stats for 2006-07 on Basketball-Reference.com
    Last edited by naptownmenace; 04-20-2011, 02:06 PM.

    Comment

    • michealwilliams4
      Taking the Celtics five.
      • Jan 2011
      • 55

      #77
      Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

      Originally posted by aaronb
      Pacers Roster when Bird took over

      Artest and O'Neal were hands down better than anyone on this roster. This core went on to have the best record in the NBA the following season.
      You're right. Bird is to blame for O'Neal's knees falling apart, Bender never panning out, Reggie retiring, Jackson and Tinsley repeatedly getting in shootouts, Brad Miller requiring too much money to resign, and Artest publicly demanding a trade plummeting his value.

      BIRRRRRDDDDD!!!

      Really though, why do some people on the internet have shticks they HAVE to live up to even when it's really quite futile?

      Comment

      • troyc11a
        Member
        • Jun 2010
        • 1136

        #78
        Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

        Originally posted by aaronb
        Pacers Roster when Bird took over



        No. Player Pos
        23 Ron Artest F
        24 Jonathan Bender F
        2 Jamison Brewer G
        27 Primoz Brezec C
        44 Austin Croshere F
        10 Jeff Foster F-C
        14 Tim Hardaway
        3 Al Harrington
        20 Fred Jones G-F
        5 Ron Mercer G-F
        52 Brad Miller C
        31 Reggie Miller G-F
        7 Jermaine O'Neal F-C
        21 Erick Strickland G
        11 Jamaal Tinsley G


        Artest and O'Neal were hands down better than anyone on this roster. This core went on to have the best record in the NBA the following season.
        Again, ban this troll. He doesnt know the first thing about the Pacers. This roster is much more than 3 years old. More like 6 years.

        Comment

        • troyc11a
          Member
          • Jun 2010
          • 1136

          #79
          Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

          Originally posted by naptownmenace
          That's not the roster when Bird took over. Most of those guys had been gone for a couple of seasons before Walsh left and Bird was named President of Basketball operations.

          Here's the correct roster from 2006-07:

          24 Darrell Armstrong G
          9 Maceo Baston F
          6 Marquis Daniels G-F
          1 Ike Diogu F
          17 Mike Dunleavy F-G
          10 Jeff Foster F-C
          33 Danny Granger F
          5 Orien Greene G
          32 Al Harrington F
          13 David Harrison C
          1 Stephen Jackson F
          3 Sarunas Jasikevicius G
          2 Rawle Marshall G-F
          20 Keith McLeod G
          3 Troy Murphy F
          7 Jermaine O'Neal F-C
          22 Josh Powell F
          11 Jamaal Tinsley G
          4 Shawne Williams F

          http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2007.html
          Actually you are still one year off. We need the 2007-08 Roster. But this is still closer. JO was hurt most of that year. Plus, all these guys were not on the roster together. Some were traded for each other (Jackson, Harrington, DunMurphy). Walsh was still calling the shots then.

          Comment

          • michealwilliams4
            Taking the Celtics five.
            • Jan 2011
            • 55

            #80
            Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

            Originally posted by troyc11a
            Again, ban this troll. He doesnt know the first thing about the Pacers. This roster is much more than 3 years old. More like 6 years.
            He's going on when Bird took over as President of Basketball Operations, not as the sole shot caller. There's too much muddled between Bird & Walsh to put everything solely on Bird between 2003-2007, but since Walsh left, Bird hasn't made a single bad move sans keeping Obie on board for too long. Even the Brandon Rush trade added Jarrett Jack and Josh McRoberts.

            Comment

            • troyc11a
              Member
              • Jun 2010
              • 1136

              #81
              Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

              Originally posted by michealwilliams4
              He's going on when Bird took over as President of Basketball Operations, not as the sole shot caller. There's too much muddled between Bird & Walsh to put everything solely on Bird between 2003-2007, but since Walsh left, Bird hasn't made a single bad move sans keeping Obie on board for too long. Even the Brandon Rush trade added Jarrett Jack and Josh McRoberts.
              I think we can agree that the Bird/Walsh combo was a disaster. A two headed monster that didnt work. Seemed like they were moving in opposite directions. The only thing we know for sure is that Bird was in charge of the draft. I think Granger worked out ok.
              Since Bird took over, he has added Hibbert, DC, Hans, traded the JO contract, and added JMac. To call him the 30th best GM is admitting you dont watch the NBA.

              Comment

              • aaronb
                Member
                • Jul 2010
                • 773

                #82
                Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

                Originally posted by troyc11a
                I think we can agree that the Bird/Walsh combo was a disaster. A two headed monster that didnt work. Seemed like they were moving in opposite directions. The only thing we know for sure is that Bird was in charge of the draft. I think Granger worked out ok.
                Since Bird took over, he has added Hibbert, DC, Hans, traded the JO contract, and added JMac. To call him the 30th best GM is admitting you dont watch the NBA.

                I didn't say he was 30th. I said he was bottom 1/3rd in terms of Front office accomplishment.

                This squad is playing well in the series. They seem to be peaking at the right time. Still doesn't change the fact that we've won 36,36,32,37 games in the season's that Bird has been 100% on his own (even if you give him a pass for the 4 years before that). And we still don't have a #1 or a #2/3 option on this roster. Its a collection of role players with only 3-4 guys who would see time on an elite team.

                LONG WAY FROM A FINISHED PRODUCT. just sayin

                Comment

                • Hicks
                  Member
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 53117

                  #83
                  Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

                  Originally posted by aaronb
                  Pacers Roster when Bird took over



                  No. Player Pos
                  23 Ron Artest F
                  24 Jonathan Bender F
                  2 Jamison Brewer G
                  27 Primoz Brezec C
                  44 Austin Croshere F
                  10 Jeff Foster F-C
                  14 Tim Hardaway
                  3 Al Harrington
                  20 Fred Jones G-F
                  5 Ron Mercer G-F
                  52 Brad Miller C
                  31 Reggie Miller G-F
                  7 Jermaine O'Neal F-C
                  21 Erick Strickland G
                  11 Jamaal Tinsley G


                  Artest and O'Neal were hands down better than anyone on this roster. This core went on to have the best record in the NBA the following season.
                  And for what feels like the millionth time, you're once again back to acting as if Bird took the reigns in 2003 and never looked back. I'm not going to go through it all again, but you're being ridiculous and once again you've regressed from all previous conversations on the subject.

                  Comment

                  • aaronb
                    Member
                    • Jul 2010
                    • 773

                    #84
                    Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

                    Originally posted by Hicks
                    And for what feels like the millionth time, you're once again back to acting as if Bird took the reigns in 2003 and never looked back. I'm not going to go through it all again, but you're being ridiculous and once again you've regressed from all previous conversations on the subject.

                    So what are your personal feelings on the state of the franchise? Has 35 wins per year over the past 4 years primed us to win a title next year? In 2012-2013? Do you keep Bird, Vogel, Status quo and honestly feel good about it?

                    Comment

                    • Since86
                      Member
                      • Dec 2004
                      • 27818

                      #85
                      Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

                      The "status quo" is letting bad contracts expire to get financial flexibility to upgrade the roster.

                      I know I'm not Hicks but yes, I feel good about it. I feel damn good about it considering the state of the franchise just 3 years ago.
                      Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                      Comment

                      • aaronb
                        Member
                        • Jul 2010
                        • 773

                        #86
                        Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

                        Originally posted by Since86
                        The "status quo" is letting bad contracts expire to get financial flexibility to upgrade the roster.

                        I know I'm not Hicks but yes, I feel good about it. I feel damn good about it considering the state of the franchise just 3 years ago.

                        36 wins?

                        Comment

                        • BringJackBack
                          Member
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 8584

                          #87
                          Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

                          Baby steps, baby steps. We're going to take a giant leap next year, you can bank on that.

                          Comment

                          • aaronb
                            Member
                            • Jul 2010
                            • 773

                            #88
                            Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

                            Originally posted by BringJackBack
                            Baby steps, baby steps. We're going to take a giant leap next year, you can bank on that.

                            I hope so, I just don't have as much faith as many other seem to have?

                            As nice as the playoff appearance is. This is still a deeply flawed roster that only won 37 games.

                            Hate to see us status quo into another 6 years of mid 30's wins.

                            Comment

                            • Hicks
                              Member
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 53117

                              #89
                              Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

                              I realize this skips details in between, but I wanted to just compare the 2008 roster we ended that season with to the current 2011 roster, plus what's next.

                              2008:

                              Marquis Daniels
                              Travis Diener
                              Ike Diogu
                              Mike Dunleavy
                              Jeff Foster
                              Stephen Graham
                              Danny Granger
                              David Harrison
                              Troy Murphy
                              Ronald Murray
                              Jermaine O'Neal
                              Andre Owens
                              Kareem Rush
                              Courtney Sims
                              Jamaal Tinsley
                              Shawne Williams

                              Jim O'Brien

                              Trades:

                              Trade #1 - Jermaine O'Neal and '08 41st pick (Nathan Jawai) for T.J. Ford, Rasho Nesterovic, Maceo Baston, and '08 17th pick (Roy Hibbert)

                              Trade #2 - Ike Diogu and '08 11th pick (Jerryd Bayless) for Jarrett Jack, Josh McRoberts, and '08 13th pick (Brandon Rush)

                              Trade #3 - Shawne Williams for Eddie Jones, '09 52nd pick (A.J. Price), and '10 57th pick (Ryan Reid)

                              Trade #4 - Troy Murphy for Darren Collison and James Posey

                              Free agency:

                              Out -

                              Marquis Daniels to Boston '09
                              Travis Diener to Portland '10
                              Stephen Graham to Charlotte '09
                              David Harrison to Never Never Land '08
                              Ronald Murray to Atlanta '08
                              Andrew Owns to Parts Unknown '08
                              Kareem Rush to Philadelphia '08
                              Courtney Sims to D-League(?) '08
                              Jamaal Tinsley to Siberia, then Memphis '10

                              In -

                              Dahntay Jones '09
                              Solomon Jones '09

                              2011:

                              Darren Collison - Acquired in Trade #4
                              Mike Dunleavy - Still here
                              T.J. Ford - Acquired in Trade #1
                              Jeff Foster - Still here
                              Paul George - Drafted '10
                              Danny Granger - Still here
                              Tyler Hansbrough - Drafted '09
                              Roy Hibbert - Acquired in Trade #1
                              Dahntay Jones - Signed '09
                              Solomon Jones - Signed '09
                              Josh McRoberts - Acquired in Trade #2
                              James Posey - Acquired in Trade #4
                              A.J. Price - Acquired in Trade #3
                              Brandon Rush - Acquired in Trade #2
                              Lance Stephenson - Drafted '10

                              Frank Vogel

                              2011 Off Season:

                              Darren Collison
                              Paul George
                              Danny Granger
                              Tyler Hansbrough
                              Roy Hibbert
                              Dahntay Jones
                              James Posey (will be an expiring $7mm contract next season)
                              A.J. Price
                              Brandon Rush
                              Lance Stephenson
                              $20,000,000+ in cap space
                              15th pick, 45th pick

                              Frank Vogel or a Coach To Be Named Later Who Is Not Jim O'Brien

                              Some will disagree, but when I look at where we were in June of 2008, and where we are in April of 2011, it's hard to be too upset. I realize there are multiple issues/topics where people wish Bird had done things differently, or they don't want to give him the credit for something positive (some of which may be fair, I might add), but just looking at the overall difference between 06/2008 and 04/2011, I don't have a lot of complaints at this time.

                              These three seasons were going to be bad, competitively speaking. I knew it, most of us knew it, and Bird knew it. That's why I don't care much about the W/L record during a stretch that was all about the bigger picture of trying to draft well and to not keep acquiring more bad contracts, allowing us to be financially healthy in 2011.

                              I could live with 30-something wins in '09, '10, and '11, more or less. That will not be the case from here on. The bare minimum must be 45 from now on, and the sooner it gets into the 50's, the better.

                              What happens this off season could swing my opinion in either direction really quickly.

                              Comment

                              • Since86
                                Member
                                • Dec 2004
                                • 27818

                                #90
                                Re: sbnation: Ranking all 30 GM's

                                Originally posted by aaronb
                                36 wins?
                                They went 20-18 just by switching out coaches, let alone an upgrade on the roster.

                                Sorry that we don't live in LALA land where everything can happen in an instant.
                                Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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