The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Bird cautious about free agents

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bird cautious about free agents

    ORLANDO, Fla. -- Now that the great race to accumulate salary-cap room for the summer of 2010 has run its course, we present the Indiana Pacers, ready to shed salary for the summer of 2011 and become a darling destination for free agents.

    Well, maybe not.

    Yes, the Pacers are in line to have plenty of cap room next summer. But president Larry Bird said it's not necessarily the case that they will make like some of the teams did this summer by having carved out every possible dime.

    "We've never been in this to get way down and go after one player,'' Bird (right) said in an interview with FanHouse at the Air Tran Orlando Pro Summer League. "We're not that size of a market where we can absorb two maximum players. So we've got to pick and choose. We've got to wait our turn.''

    The Pacers have several top players with expiring contracts, such as Troy Murphy ($11.97 million), Mike Dunleavy ($10.56 million), T.J. Ford ($8.78 mlllion) and also have Jamaal Tinsley ($7.5 million) still on the books. Without giving names, Bird said it's possible the Pacers, instead of waiting to use their cap room on free agents and risk being left without impact signees, might make a deal by acquiring a player or players with multiple years left on their deals.

    "We've got a lot of expiring contracts,'' said Bird, whose team has endured four straight losing seasons. "We've got a lot of teams out there that are interested in some of our players. So we'll see what happens. Obviously, we're looking for a point guard. Maybe we can get involved in one of these trades that will make us a little better next year.''

    Bird said he wouldn't hesitate now to give up cap room next season if it was a deal the Pacers liked.

    "We can start right now,'' Bird said of a trade.

    The Pacers are in a different position than the teams that did everything possible to create salary cap room for this summer. Next year's free-agency class won't be nearly as strong as this year's has been. And there is plenty of uncertainty since there will be a new collective bargaining agreement after the current one expires June 30, 2011.

    "We don't know,'' Bird said of what type of salary cap there might be. "We're also hearing that the numbers are going to come down. We won't see those (maximum) contracts that we're seeing now. If the numbers come down and the cap comes down, we can still deal with it.''

    For now, Bird said the Pacers have "waited two years to be in this position and we aren't going to do something stupid.'' So, in order to preserve their cap space, Indiana plans to offer free agents just one-year deals this summer. Two point guards the Pacers are eyeing are the Lakers' Jordan Farmar (unrestricted) and Houston's Kyle Lowry (restricted).

    Also hanging over the Pacers are difficulties during these tough economic times with their lease at Conseco Fieldhouse, which has led to speculation the team might move. But Bird doesn't believe they're going anywhere.

    "I know my owner (Herb Simon) and he wants to keep it in Indiana,'' Bird said. "So we can talk about moving all we want. But I know what his goals are and hopefully he can come to terms on an agreement and get something done. ... I just know what my owner wants to do and he wants to keep it there.''

    Bird said the four straight losing and non-playoff seasons have been "frustrating for all of us.'' But Bird said the Pacers in recent years haven't wanted to make a quick fix as they got closer to shedding some bad contracts and having cap room available.

    "It's unfortunate the wins and losses the last couple of years, but we felt that we needed to go with our young core group, and try to move them forward,'' Bird said. "And once we had an opportunity with our expiring contracts, see what we can do.''

    Heading the young core group has been forward Danny Granger, an All-Star in 2008 who had injury problems last season. Other intriguing young players include center Roy Hibbert, forward Tyler Hansbrough and guard Brandon Rush.

    Continuing to exercise patience, Bird used the No. 10 pick in last month's draft to select slender Fresno State forward Paul George rather than go for a player perhaps more NBA-ready. George struggled at times in the summer league, which he finished by averaging 15.3 points and shooting just 33.3 percent.

    "He's talented,'' Bird said. "We know his skill level. But he's got a lot of things that he's got to work on. One of them is his turnovers. He's very quick to give up the ball after the play has closed up and his strength. As he gets stronger in the next year or two, I think he's got a lot of talent to do very well in this league. Hes' got the speed, the quickness the jumping ability and he can shoot. ... It's going to take him a while. He's a late bloomer. He's not going to be a big impact the first couple of years.''

    There are some who considered George a bit of reach with that high of a pick. But that doesn't bother the rookie.

    "They're entitled to their opinion,'' he said. "I know what I can do and what I'm capable of. I've just got to continue to work hard and be positive that I can be one of the steals of this draft.''

    For now, George isn't even being looked upon as the biggest draft steal on his own team. With the No. 40 pick in the second round, the Pacers selected Cincinnati guard Lance Stephenson, who averaged 14.8 points in Orlando while shooting 73.3 percent.

    "It really doesn't surprise us,'' Bird said of Stephenson's play. "He knows how to play so he's going to look good here.''

    There's another reason Bird might want to like Stephenson. He said he wore No. 33 in college because it was Bird's number while a Hall of Famer with the Celtics.

    "Larry Bird was my favorite player and that's why I (wore) 33,'' said Stephenson, who donned No. 6 in Orlando. "But now I've got to find another number because Danny Granger has 33.''

    Turns out Bird actually was Stephenson's second or third-favorite player. He had initially wanted No. 1 at Cincinnati because of Penny Hardaway and Tracy McGrady but that was taken by another player.

    Nevertheless, Stephenson is excited about playing for a rebuilding Indiana outfit. And so is George.

    "I think I'll be a key piece to this rebuilding we got going on,'' George said. "Josh McRoberts is an excellent player. And, with Troy Murphy, Danny Granger and Roy Hibbert, we've got a nice nucleus, and I think I can be a part of that.''

    Murphy, who has an expiring contract and also can play, might not be a big part of the future. But you get the point.

  • #2
    Re: Bird cautious about free agents

    So who's going to be a free agent next season?


    • #3
      Re: Bird cautious about free agents

      sounds like Bird intends on keeping Rush. He does say George won't be a factor for the first couple of years.
      Peck is basically omniscient when it comes to understanding how the minds of Herb Simon and Kevin Pritchard work. I was a fool to ever question him and now feel deep shame for not understanding that this team believes in continuity above talent.


      • #4
        Re: Bird cautious about free agents

        That is actually promising to me. At least he knows where he stands and seems to be realistic about it. Before, he kept talking about cap space and I never really heard about him entertaining the idea of a trade this year to cut into it. It's good that he isn't just planning on throwing stupid money at a player who doesn't deserve it.


        • #5
          Re: Bird cautious about free agents

          I like that we are looking for deals, but I don't like that we aren't getting anything done. Do we seem too desperate for a PG. I know Bird won't take a bad deal, so we might be stuck at an impass with some teams.
          If OKC wanted too much for Maynor, and New Orleans wants too much for Collison who is left that we could trade for. I think we can rule out a deal with Kahn.
          If we don't sign Famar or Ridnour, and we don't deal Ford, then we might as well keep what we have. We can always hope Price comes back before the regular season starts.


          • #6
            Re: Bird cautious about free agents

            Originally posted by cdash View Post
            That is actually promising to me. At least he knows where he stands and seems to be realistic about it. Before, he kept talking about cap space and I never really heard about him entertaining the idea of a trade this year to cut into it. It's good that he isn't just planning on throwing stupid money at a player who doesn't deserve it.
            Agreed, this does make me feel better.

            Of course, it also proves that ?Naptown? was right when he said it's not a 3-year plan to be in contention, it's a 3-year plan to get out of the hole.
            This space for rent.


            • #7
              Re: Bird cautious about free agents

              Originally posted by Anthem View Post
              Agreed, this does make me feel better.

              Of course, it also proves that ?Naptown? was right when he said it's not a 3-year plan to be in contention, it's a 3-year plan to get out of the hole.

              It was BBall, wasn't it?


              And I won't be here to see the day
              It all dries up and blows away
              I'd hang around just to see
              But they never had much use for me
              In Levelland. (James McMurtry)


              • #8
                Re: Bird cautious about free agents

                Isn't it going to be difficult to sign guys to one year contracts with a potential lockout looming?

                Also: Paul George thinks Josh McRoberts is an excellent player.


                • #9
                  Re: Bird cautious about free agents

                  Having ample capspace going into a season with uncertainty in regard FTP the CBA maybe a blessing in disguise especially if it's expected that we won't be seeing huge contracts being doled out like this season.
                  Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.


                  • #10
                    Re: Bird cautious about free agents

                    Originally posted by tora tora View Post
                    So who's going to be a free agent next season?
                    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!


                    • #11
                      Re: Bird cautious about free agents

                      Originally posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
                      Isn't it going to be difficult to sign guys to one year contracts with a potential lockout looming?

                      Also: Paul George thinks Josh McRoberts is an excellent player.
                      Dude has ton of athletic ability, he can be a solid contributor imo. Besides, wouldn't you consider any player with the ability to make an NBA roster to be an excellent player?
                      "The greatest thing you know Comes not from above but below" Danzig


                      • #12
                        Re: Bird cautious about free agents

                        George is trying to get on McRoberts good side to get him to teach him his sweet 3pt stroke.


                        • #13
                          Re: Bird cautious about free agents

                          Originally posted by HC View Post
                          Dude has ton of athletic ability, he can be a solid contributor imo. Besides, wouldn't you consider any player with the ability to make an NBA roster to be an excellent player?
                          Yes, I would. I just wanted to stress that part because I smiled when I read it. It's not everyday that a top 10 pick says that about an NBA player who has never averaged 15 minutes of playing time in a season. I love that he said that. Nothing makes me happier than when our players like and respect each other.


                          • #14
                            Re: Bird cautious about free agents

                            It is very very interesting to hear Bird say that George isn't going to be a big factor in what we do next year. Bird simply confounds me sometimes; he'll say he wants NBA-ready players and he wants to win now, and now he's saying he's fine with waiting a couple of years on George? I mean, look at the headline here:

                            I just don't get Larry sometimes. It seems as if he wants one thing one minute and changes his entire philosophy the next. Just like when he drafts players like Rush and Hibbert who would best thrive in a more deliberate system but he drafts them for Jim O'Brien's breakneck system. I'm officially confused. What does Larry want?


                            • #15
                              Re: Bird cautious about free agents

                              I personally have been EXTREMELY pleased with what our front office has done. We have been patient and that has been more important than anything else, even though our fan base has gotten a little restless (but no moreso than they were when it was forced upon us to deal all of our talent). What we need is the flexibility and LEVERAGE to make a move. We haven't had that for three years. We want them to do something I understand.

                              We have a gaping hole at PG, but our best opportunity to make a beneficial move will be after the season starts. We should go into the season IMO with Ford, Stephenson, and Price as our PG's. Once Price comes back healthy it should be easy to get rid of Ford, along with Murphy and Foster. Dunleavy will be the toughest to move. I think we can take advantage of those expirings because teams will know their direction more then. Teams that start off bad and have no hope for contention will be more desperate to get rid of a great player. Teams that start out strong will be more desperate for a veteran big on an expiring deal for a late draft pick or a young player.

                              Also, we are actually at a great advantage next year with so many teams being under the cap. There are more teams under the cap for next year that will catalyze trades as the third wheel in a deal. It hurts the value of our expiring contracts a little bit, but not enough to matter. Since there will be several teams under the cap, they will compete with one another to get into deals to use their space and you won't see the same premium paid to facilitate a deal.

                              As for Bird and Morway, we are just starting the final phase of our three year plan. Anthem and BBall are sooooo right. I was always in this mindset, but I think many others haven't had that patience or understanding. We are a young rebuilding team and I think that is the next phase of our team. I think you will see a much different substitution pattern this year, but it won't be initially if we still have Murphy on our roster. Stephenson should start with TJ off the bench. Rush starts and DJ and Dun get bench minutes between 2-3 and Granger obviously being our man. Murphy will start and McRoberts will get significantly more burn this year overall. Hansborough depends on his health, but assuming he is ready by the season start, he will get significant burn. I see him being our starting PF by year end. Foster will get solid minutes as the backup center until we can trade him to a contender. Spurs, Thunder, Lakers, Mavs, Magic and Hawks, should all be interested in Foster and Murphy.

                              I have a feeling they are going to blow that team up down in New Orleans by the end of the year. I would give NO anything they want for CP3. Two future firsts and a current young player (Stephenson possibly or George) plus an expiring might get it done at that point. Collison has looked very good in the summer league so far for them. PG is our biggest need.

                              If the Magic are set on getting rid of Gortat, he would be a great player to trade Foster for. Essentiually the same type of player, just younger and a lot more expensive. He could come in and give us solid backup center minutes. I could even see him play NEXT to Hibbert for short stretches. But he would play 20-25 minutes a night for us. With the assumption that Murphy is traded, Hansborough, McRoberts, and Rolle could handle all the PF minutes. Gortat would ensure we don't wear Hibbert down by over using him and he brings a TON of toughness as the "Polish Hammer".

                              The long and short of it:

                              - Trade our expirings during the season.
                              - Address starting PG, backup center, and add toughness in the front court.
                              - Only take on longer term deals for players who would be part of our core... like Nazr's expiring and a young Charlotte player for Ford where the young player has a longer deal.
                              - Add any and all draft picks that we can negotiate in these deals. It gives us more assets to deal than including our young roster players that we want to keep.

                              We probably won't see our team do anything until the end of free agency, where I could see us pick up a cheap PG possibly, but I doubt it if a good deal doesn't come along and opens a roster spot. Don't expect us to do anything other than sign our rookies until after the season starts. Sorry so long.
                              "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."