Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

[travmil]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

I actually think this is pretty encouraging for the future of the Pacers in the city. This is in effect an attempt by the CIB to quantify what the pacers mean to Indianapolis on an annual basis. They are releasing this to the public in an attempt to say "See, we WILL be losing this amount of money if the Pacers leave". Whether it's true or not or their numbers are accurate is up to each individual to decide. But to me it says that the CIB is going into this with their minds made up. They are going to take over the Conseco operating costs, they are just trying to show the public why they are doing it. I wouldn't do it without some type of ironclad agreement from PS&E though.

[Unclebuck]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

So basically most of you won't believe anything on this issue, so nothing will convince you any study done is worth anything, so I guess the discussion is over

[Putnam]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

It is common for politically charged debates for both sides to hire professionals to "prove" their side of the argument. You could just as readily hire a different firm to "show" that the impact would be insignificant.

Such reports as you describe do get written and distributed. But I don't think this report is an instance of one.

Do you suppose Simon or PS&E really asked a hired-bandit research consultant to show that the Pacers represent 0.001 of the Marion County economy?


Zero-point-zero-zero-one!



.

[JohnnyBGoode]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

[QUOTE=Putnam;993910]Such reports as you describe do get written and distributed. But I don't think this report is an instance of one.

Do you suppose Simon or PS&E really asked a hired-bandit research consultant to show that the Pacers represent 0.001 of the Marion County economy?


Zero-point-zero-zero-one!


Yes! How many residents of Marion County will take the time to do the math like you have? They will only see the 55 million figure and bend over.

[Putnam]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

Yes! How many residents of Marion County will take the time to do the math like you have? They will only see the 55 million figure and bend over.

That's true.



.

[Hicks]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

Such reports as you describe do get written and distributed. But I don't think this report is an instance of one.

Do you suppose Simon or PS&E really asked a hired-bandit research consultant to show that the Pacers represent 0.001 of the Marion County economy?


Zero-point-zero-zero-one!



.

Well first of all I thought it was "the other side" not the Simons or PS&E that hired these folks for this study, which is an important distinction if I'm right about it.

Secondly, I think discussing the % of the economy misses the real debate. I believe the real debate has been "Are the Pacers worth keeping at the cost of paying $15,000,000 a year (on Conseco Fieldhouse)?"

[Speed]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

Results from studies are only considered valid if it supports someone's preconcevied beliefs, for the most part.

All this aside, it's relatively small potatoes what the Pacers are asking for right now. To ask for it was built into the contract. So, if this keeps them here, then good, imho.

If this was the first step in asking for tons of more concessions, outside of what was written into the original agreement then thats another story. I don't think we've seen thats the case yet.

Some people say screw the Pacers based on the fact they disagree with extravagant public funding for a private business.

Some people say I don't care what it costs, I want major sports in my town.

I get both sides, but in the end if you really feel strongly about it, move. Go live in a small town in North Dakota or go live in the heart of New York and have a ton of teams to support.

I mean, really it's the playing field for having a Major Sports in your city in today's environment.

Personally, I think it makes sense to have a vibrant downtown with money flowing. I love to be able to walk the canal, go to the zoo, catch an Indians game, go to Ribfest. Back in the day, you went downtown to work, if even that.

We aren't talking seat licensing here or tickets that a middle income family can't afford.

A broader tax base brings in more tax money if I'm doing my math correctly here.

Lastly, when the Pacers were going to the ECF every year there was a sense of community in this town you can't get from hosting a tractor pull. Same with the Colts. Put a price on that.

[Putnam]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

Gross Domestic Product
Indianapolis Metro Area, 2008


Manufacturing -- $19.2 billion
Government -- $8.3 billion
Banking & Insurance -- $7.6 billion
Retail -- $5.2 billion
Hotels & Restaurants -- $2.2 billion
Media -- $2.7 billion
Arts, Entertainment & Recreation -- $1.3 billion


This shows more meaningfully what $55 million is to the Indianapolis economy. the annual GDP of the metro area is $96.3 billion. GDP includes value of sales as well as compensation to workers. The Pacers' $55 million contribution amounts to . . .

0.0005 of the Indianapolis metro economy. That is tiny.



Zero-point-zero-zero-zero-five!




As I've said before: Let's keep the Pacers because we like them and choose to spend our money on NBA basketball rather than on casinos or drugs or poodle couffeurs or poofy artwork or anything else.

But let's quit saying the Pacers are vital to our economy in any sense but emotionally.


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[Putnam]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

I believe the real debate has been "Are the Pacers worth keeping at the cost of paying $15,000,000 a year (on Conseco Fieldhouse)?"

Yes, that is the better question.



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[travmil]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

GDP includes value of sales as well as compensation to workers.

Then shouldn't logic dictate that some of that $96.3 billion should be cancelled out since it includes sales that would not be generated if the companies doing the selling weren't compensating the workers doing the buying?

[Putnam]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

Then shouldn't logic dictate that some of that $96.3 billion should be cancelled out since it includes sales that would not be generated if the companies doing the selling weren't compensating the workers doing the buying?

No. They go together. They don't cancel each other out. You can't pay wages without a product or service to sell, nor can you sell a product or service without paying wages. You either have both, or neither.


.

[Granville]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

I actually think this is pretty encouraging for the future of the Pacers in the city. This is in effect an attempt by the CIB to quantify what the pacers mean to Indianapolis on an annual basis. They are releasing this to the public in an attempt to say "See, we WILL be losing this amount of money if the Pacers leave". Whether it's true or not or their numbers are accurate is up to each individual to decide. But to me it says that the CIB is going into this with their minds made up. They are going to take over the Conseco operating costs, they are just trying to show the public why they are doing it. I wouldn't do it without some type of ironclad agreement from PS&E though.

I agree with this. It is fair to argue whether the report is biased to a view or not, but the point remains that this was released by the CIB, not the Pacers, and should make us all more optimistic that a deal is going to get done.

[MyFavMartin]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

So by spending $15 mill in operating costs, Indy would get more than a 3:1 return. Sounds pretty good.

This seems fairly standard when considering one's high school economics where a dollar spent yields returns when a percent of that dollar is again spent locally. (Makes me think about how the TARP was spent, but that's spilt milk.)

The Pacers and Fever are good for Indy.

How much would it cost to bring another team here?

[pacergod2]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

Everytime I fly in to Indiana to see family I fly in to Indianapolis on purpose. To support the city and to catch a Pacers gamne when I can. I went to Conseco last time I was there and paid for a hotel in Indy and ate three meals downtown. Just to drive to northern Indiana. Just to find a blue Brandon Rush jersey. Didn't get one but I did get one through Pacers Gear. Yeah ok. I am not your average fan of the Pacers granted. But how many businessmen and women who are in town go to a Pacers game during the winter months because they are in town? Don't discredit the substance to what is being said. I agree with the skepticism involved in any study, just like any statistic it can be skewed.

There are far reaching consequences for letting a team leave. Indy would only have one professional team. Instead of drawing people into downtown three times a week, they are only then drawing them one time every other week during football season. Anytime you can fill a night with an event of some sort, you are going to draw people downtown. The more people you consistently draw, the more tax dollars get filtered into the government and the more revenues businesses can draw. Professional sports teams are a major draw, even if they aren't very good. Indy is not going to have a Bruce Springstein concert every night. They are lucky to get one a year. There is a lot of synergy and substance to keeping the Pacers in town.

To lose the Pacers would be a step in the wrong direction for a city who could either continue to grow and prosper or allow themselves to take a major step backward toward what it was 30 years ago. It is less about $15M dollars per year, and more about substantiating the city. You think another mid size city would love to get their hands on the Pacers franchise? You bet they would. Brings excitement and it looks good for a city who you compete with for business. "Indianapolis can't even keep the Pacers around, can I rely on the city to make an effort when bringing my company there?" Sure there is more that goes into the decision, but that might prevent a company from even considering Indy. The city can't take a step backwards after all they have done to renovate the downtown landscape. I wish my city, Richmond, VA, would take a page out of Indianapolis' playbook.

[Gamble1]

Re: Indianapolis would lose $55 million if Indiana Pacers left [ESPN]

Well first of all I thought it was "the other side" not the Simons or PS&E that hired these folks for this study, which is an important distinction if I'm right about it.

Secondly, I think discussing the % of the economy misses the real debate. I believe the real debate has been "Are the Pacers worth keeping at the cost of paying $15,000,000 a year (on Conseco Fieldhouse)?"

I was going to bring this up and I am glad you did. This report smells of justification and I understand that from a political view. The CIB doesn't want to be the reason that the Pacers move thats for sure and the Pacers are defiantly worth 15 mill to keep, IMO.

The reason why this is more than about 15 mill to keep the Pacers is because of the poor economy and the city making poor choices for its people with these lease contracts.

Speed,

I get both sides, but in the end if you really feel strongly about it, move. Go live in a small town in North Dakota or go live in the heart of New York and have a ton of teams to support.

I mean, really it's the playing field for having a Major Sports in your city in today's environment.

We can change the playing field. The CIB has done a poor job IMO and maybe this is what it takes for people to realize that they are getting hosed collectively.