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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Why make this statement???

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  • joeyd
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
    Silly. But good.

    You can probably tell that I'm trying to catch up on LOST! I take some solace in the fact that I'll at least have that show to watch after the Pacers season is over, at least for another month...

    Leave a comment:


  • Justin Tyme
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    Originally posted by Bball View Post
    There's another side to the 'play the young players' argument for me. Sure, you want to get them experience and further their progression sooner rather than later....

    BUT you also want to see what you got with them. You want to see who progresses quickly, who regresses, who doesn't exactly mesh, who doesn't give effort, who doesn't listen to the coach, who is a quick study, who might be better than you thought, who might have a much lower ceiling than you thought....

    All great reasons, and now is the time to do it at 20-42 with only 20 games left. Unless Bird comes down off his perch and mandates it, I don't see it happening.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bball
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    There's another side to the 'play the young players' argument for me. Sure, you want to get them experience and further their progression sooner rather than later....

    BUT you also want to see what you got with them. You want to see who progresses quickly, who regresses, who doesn't exactly mesh, who doesn't give effort, who doesn't listen to the coach, who is a quick study, who might be better than you thought, who might have a much lower ceiling than you thought....

    Leave a comment:


  • McKeyFan
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    Originally posted by joeyd View Post
    Some would probably contend that JOB is ruining our future's past.
    Silly. But good.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hoop
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    Originally posted by Tom White View Post
    Wait a minute. You've paid THAT MUCH MONEY to watch this team............and yet.........O'Brien is the moron?

    I'm sorry. I just had to do that.
    Thanks, I needed that.

    Seriously, this season and JOB have really got under my skin. I can't let all this kill my sense of humor. I'm usually a pretty cheerful person.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brad8888
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    Originally posted by Tom White View Post
    Wait a minute. You've paid THAT MUCH MONEY to watch this team............and yet.........O'Brien is the moron?

    I'm sorry. I just had to do that.
    Rant begins:

    On behalf of those of us who have spent big money on tickets in hopes of things beginning to improve while the "Plan" has been developing...

    That said, I finally got to the end of my contract and am now able to spend far less for decent to very good seats for only the games I want to see, so from the outside looking in for the first time in over 10 years, I can see where you would think this is funny.

    I assume that you haven't had to regret spending that big money while those in seats all around you are paying FAR less than you did to watch this poorly coached ineffective product in person, all the while just wishing that someone would just make it all stop and get on with making the changes it will obviously take to improve both coaching and results.

    End of rant.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom White
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    Originally posted by Hoop View Post
    When I've paid between $6,000-10,000 every season over the last 3 years to watch this moron of a coach make a mockery of the team I love, I'll call him anything I want to. He's just a coach, he's not freaking Ghandi, plus he's making millions of dollars, screw him. I owe him nothing. What? are we gonna hurt his poor wittle feelings.

    He's looks more and more like a incompetent fool daily and he's been a complete tool recently. I don't have the vocabulary to describe how bad I feel about this a-hole, but I'll keep trying, just to p*ss off the "respect" police.

    Venting feels good.
    Wait a minute. You've paid THAT MUCH MONEY to watch this team............and yet.........O'Brien is the moron?

    I'm sorry. I just had to do that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom White
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    Originally posted by joeyd View Post
    ...they thought deeply about what they said. You could ask them a question such as "what do you think about this weather?" But they might think about this question this for a full minute before responding. JOB is no Nobel Prize candidate (and I don't mean this in a bad way---how many of us are Nobel candidates?), but someone really should suggest that he think before he speaks.
    I try to do this, also. It gives me time to decide WHICH foot I'm going to put in my mouth, when I do speak.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gamble1
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
    Whether a roookie plays 35 games and averages 5 minutes per game or if he plays all 82 and averages 25 minutes per game. That player is going to be the same within a year or two anyway - as their talent, desire, IQ...indicates.
    You should tell that to Gerald Wallace, Micheal Redd, Chauncey Billups, Corey Maggete, Ben Wallace.

    Guys peak at different times based on experience. The more experience the faster they reach that peak, IMO. Who knows if Price is going to be a starter in the NBA but if you don't let him try you'll never know. Worst yet you could be one of those teams that trades a asset away too early only to find out that you had a very good player on your hands.

    My point is that the Pacers have a great opportunity to let player have some experience while not changing the fact that we are missing the playoffs. Why not take advantage of it.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 03-05-2010, 04:51 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BillS
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    Originally posted by cordobes View Post
    Why are you equating developing young talent to force feeding them minutes?

    That's an extremely common assumption among fans (that's why every fan of every team complains about their coach hating the young players) but I've always thought it's an extremely faulty one.
    Fair enough, because that is exactly my point of view. I've fallen into the same trap as others with that statement.

    What I should have said was more like "giving young players lots of game time", which is certainly helpful if done right but (in my opinion) is by no means essential to early NBA development.

    Leave a comment:


  • joeyd
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    Originally posted by Hicks View Post
    I don't know about ruining the future, but I will say he's delaying the future.
    Some would probably contend that JOB is ruining our future's past. Heavy, I know! But the fact is that there will be little from this or the past couple of seasons that will remain memorable about the basketball team itself. At least for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • cordobes
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    Heh, how testy. Very unprofessional statement.

    Originally posted by BillS View Post
    To be completely honest, I think there are few to even no coaches in the NBA who are good at developing young talent except when they are forced to do so. This includes when a bad team gets a potential superstar - they ain't playing him minutes just to develop him, they are giving him minutes because he's the best they've got.
    Why are you equating developing young talent to force feeding them minutes?

    That's an extremely common assumption among fans (that's why every fan of every team complains about their coach hating the young players) but I've always thought it's an extremely faulty one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peck
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    Originally posted by BillS View Post
    To be completely honest, I think there are few to even no coaches in the NBA who are good at developing young talent except when they are forced to do so. This includes when a bad team gets a potential superstar - they ain't playing him minutes just to develop him, they are giving him minutes because he's the best they've got.
    Indeed

    Leave a comment:


  • Speed
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
    I think it hurt Tinsley in some ways that he was the starter his first game. (but I think it probably would have done Tinsley some good to earn his minutes struggle to find minutes.... (his best season was when he didn't start the first 25 games of the season) (I would also argue that if he didn't start at all his rookie season - he still would have been what he was - and that is my major point a player is going to be what a player is going to be.

    Whether a roookie plays 35 games and averages 5 minutes per game or if he plays all 82 and averages 25 minutes per game. That player is going to be the same within a year or two anyway - as their talent, desire, IQ...indicates.

    Playing time for a 1st or second year player is not the panecea that so many suggest in this forum. Obviosuly I am not suggesting lebron james should have sat his rookie season - but we don't have a young player like that. But even if James didn't play at all his rookie season he'd still be what he is today.
    I don't agree, I think actual NBA gametime minutes can completely change the learning curve. Now I agree everyone has a ceiling overall, but most guys never reach it, so I guess it's like this to me. Guys can only progress so fast, but you can stifle or stunt that growth by not giving them the minutes to figure it out and develop.

    For example, I pretty much believe AJ belongs in the NBA, I've seen enough to think that. I don't know however, what exactly he needs to work on this summer. I mean I think I know some of it, but why not see the whole picture.

    So AJ works on some of the stuff we know, but maybe he could've identified more.

    This isn't even counting the experience factor of knowing what works at the big table and maybe adjusting that game to game.

    So the statement was it doesn't matter for 2 years down the road, but if you delay development it does to me and then it piggy back each year you don't get that experience/development. It becomes an exponential delay at that point, I think.

    Roy's another example, he limited his own time last year, but still got enough exposure to start to put it together. This year, he's kind of jerked around by match ups and has delayed getting as many lumps as maybe he should have, maybe not.

    Lastly, almost no player reaches their true ceilings, a group gets close, so I think until your body starts to betray you as you get older, these guys need to get as much development in as quickly as possible. Not set them up to fail, mind you, but expediting their development as well as not inhibiting the timeline of growth.

    Leave a comment:


  • BillS
    replied
    Re: Why make this statement???

    Originally posted by Peck View Post
    True, but I just didn't want it to be assumed that JOB really was a good coach at developing young talent.

    However to be fair I don't think he would be a bad coach at developing young talent if that young talent played his style of ball.

    That is why you really have to scratch your head at what Bird has done with getting the players he has and keeping the coach he has.
    To be completely honest, I think there are few to even no coaches in the NBA who are good at developing young talent except when they are forced to do so. This includes when a bad team gets a potential superstar - they ain't playing him minutes just to develop him, they are giving him minutes because he's the best they've got.

    Leave a comment:

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