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Bird asks for our patience...

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  • #31
    Re: Bird asks for our patience...

    Originally posted by Bender View Post
    I have a good feeling that no trade is going to be made. Hes going to wait til next deadline. I dont wanna wait another year!!! If we dont make a trade I hope we tank.

    so what are they doing now?
    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Bird asks for our patience...

      Wasn't this the same turkey that was hell bent on getting this team to the playoffs the last two years? Now he says he was expecting 36-41 wins with a fully healthy team? I know this is the East and it is reasonable to make the playoffs with records like that, but still, he knew this team wasn't going to be healthy. His words are flowing one way and his actions are flowing another. Sorry, I want him out.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Bird asks for our patience...

        Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
        Correct what? Only time and better players are going to correct the Pacers problems. Bird has given us a time line and asked us to be patient until then.

        As is, until the players think they have a chance no one is going to get them to play better.

        It would really help if we would start off a season with a healthy team, and not a half dozen new players.
        What, it takes better players to keep moving and try to make plays rather than settling for an outside shot?

        Sorry, that ain't cutting it with me, because - upon occasion - they do move without the ball and get mid-range or to the rim.

        There are many ways to get a team to play a different style, I just want to understand how Bird expects it to happen with this team. It's not like I think it will suddenly make us a contender, I just figure if Larry (as well as the majority of folks here) sees this as a problem, he should be telling someone to try to correct it. If he is telling someone to try to correct it and trusts them to do so, I'd like to understand how.
        BillS

        A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
        Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Bird asks for our patience...

          I was already done with Jim.

          But this:

          "Jimmy's done an excellent job of doing the things I want him to do," Bird said. "It won't show in wins and losses, but it will show in the long run."
          ...makes me nearly done with Larry, as well.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Bird asks for our patience...

            Have we really made it this far without a snarky "Bird is always asking for too much..." comment? Tsk tsk tsk...


            Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
            I've been there since the day JO was traded for a #1 and cap space.

            Get rid of the vets and go young.

            The trade deadline is a big event on the calendar.

            I don't mind watching the young guys even if Jim is the coach. But to watch him coach with Ford and Murphy on the court just makes me ill.
            How do you reconcile wanting a youth-dominated lineup with listing Byron Scott as your top choice to replace Jimmy?
            This is the darkest timeline.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Bird asks for our patience...

              "The one thing Jimmy bought into when he came here was that we were going to rebuild, and we were going to struggle at times," Bird said. "I always say the losses are on me because I want him to work these guys hard, develop the young guys we have and keep moving forward with what we have."

              Then actually play them, don't sit Roy for Murphy or AJ for TJ or Rush for Dun.

              "T.J. knows that I respect his game, and he knows how much I like him," Bird said. "It's unfortunate that they're in that situation, but at that time, we wanted to see if A.J. could play, and we know he can."

              It continues to sound like we're going to see TJ and Watson as our two PGs. Come on Larry, you know better.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Bird asks for our patience...

                Originally posted by BillS View Post
                What, it takes better players to keep moving and try to make plays rather than settling for an outside shot?

                Sorry, that ain't cutting it with me, because - upon occasion - they do move without the ball and get mid-range or to the rim.

                There are many ways to get a team to play a different style, I just want to understand how Bird expects it to happen with this team. It's not like I think it will suddenly make us a contender, I just figure if Larry (as well as the majority of folks here) sees this as a problem, he should be telling someone to try to correct it. If he is telling someone to try to correct it and trusts them to do so, I'd like to understand how.
                You're assuming Bird wants it corrected right now like you do. This season is lost, why correct it when you can get something out of it.

                I think Bird see's this as a chance to get a high pick in the draft. Of course he's not going to tell us that though.

                As for next year, we'll have to wait and see how we start out.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Bird asks for our patience...

                  Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
                  You're assuming Bird wants it corrected right now like you do. This season is lost, why correct it when you can get something out of it.
                  Because you might lose more (in attendance) than you get (a chance at a chance for a big draft pick).

                  But that argument has happened in other places and will continue.

                  Bottom line for me is that I try to keep to a middle ground. I don't jump on the automatic "everything Bird says is BS" bandwagon. If, however,he's being truthful, I want to know how he expects to change the things he doesn't like. If he isn't or is being vague, I really would rather not have the topic touched on at all.
                  BillS

                  A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                  Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Bird asks for our patience...

                    "STOP, PLEASE STOP!!!"
                    Please swallow this.... ... And Step away From the Ledge!

                    Now, lets review what was really said.
                    The New News:


                    ... :crickets: .....


                    That's right, NOTHING!

                    Seriously, what did you think L.Bird would say?

                    -We all thought we could win 37-41 games is all went right t/y. What did LB say to dispute that?

                    -We know we have no shot at winning till after the '11 season, so why would any other coach want to come here, esp. when there is no way our owner is going to pay another coach while still paying JO'B at the same time he is crying for help from the city. If the coach is staying (whether LB or any of us like it), then he HAS to support him. That is all he did.

                    -We are all acting like L.Bird is doing everything 100% HIS way, with no owner input. The Simons told LB to not let Tinsley ever dawn a Pacer uni or step foot in the building again - regardless of the outcome, & LB did. The owners also wanted to win while we rebuilt (like we were able to do for a long time previous), esp. because the playoffs bring in revenue, so LB has tried.

                    -We all must realize that we have not tanked before because we had too much talent to be that bad, & too long of contracts to do anything different. No one has been willing to bail us out, & LB does not have the NY?Dolan type resourses to do thing that others can.

                    -We all might want the youth to play more, but LB played out the 1st 1/3 of the yr. hoping for some magic, but when it did not happen we started playing AJ over TJ, and Rush has continued to play despite struggles.

                    -We need to be smart enough to see thru the smoke & know that his words of patience, to me it is a prelude to saying "we're about to get worse" (ala. we are about to trade vet talent for youth/ future cap).

                    Also, I listened to a good interview w/ D.Morway who spoke "optimisticly" of some trades happening before the deadline. He spoke that while they are some-what frustrated w/ Rush's inconsistency, they know he was similuar at Kansas his first 2 yrs, then expanded as he became a "vet" (w/ the implication that as Troy, Mike, TJ, Foster leave, Rush goes from "new guy" to team "vet", you will see him be more vocal/ charismatic). He did not get too indepth w/ JO'B, but you get the feel Jim is helping LB "tread water" till '11. IMO w/ different talent, you will see some style changes & focus.

                    Now, Seth, others, it this "Nothing News" really worth the pissing & moaning I've been reading? The "I quit, this is B.S." attidude .... Seriously guys.....
                    Remember, this is a business, & while you may see Larry as "the Man", the fact is he is an employee. He has orders & he knows things we don't. The one thing that he did not change, thus the reason I see no need to react is that we are still following "The 3 Year Plan". Nothing new there.
                    Last edited by PacerGuy; 02-11-2010, 05:50 PM.
                    "Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"
                    (Watching You Like A Hawk!)

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Bird asks for our patience...

                      Originally posted by PacerGuy View Post
                      "STOP, PLEASE STOP!!!"
                      Please swallow this.... ... And Step away From the Ledge!

                      Now, lets review what was really said.
                      The New News:


                      ... :crickets: .....


                      That's right, NOTHING!

                      Seriously, what did you think L.Bird would say?

                      -We all thought we could win 37-41 games is all went right t/y. What did LB say to dispute that?

                      -We know we have no shot at winning till after the '11 season, so why would any other coach want to come here, esp. when there is no way our owner is going to pay another coach while still paying JO'B at the same time he is crying for help from the city. If the coach is staying (whether LB or any of us like it), then he HAS to support him. That is all he did.

                      -We are all acting like L.Bird is doing everything 100% HIS way, with no owner input. The Simons told LB to not let Tinsley ever dawn a Pacer uni or step foot in the building again - regardless of the outcome, & LB did. The owners also wanted to win while we rebuilt (like we were able to do for a long time previous), esp. because the playoffs bring in revenue, so LB has tried.

                      -We all must realize that we have not tanked before because we had too much talent to be that bad, & too long of contracts to do anything different. No one has been willing to bail us out, & LB does not have the NY?Dolan type resourses to do thing that others can.

                      -We all might want the youth to play more, but LB played out the 1st 1/3 of the yr. hoping for some magic, but when it did not happen we started playing AJ over TJ, and Rush has continued to play despite struggles.

                      -We need to be smart enough to see thru the smoke & know that his words of patience, to me it is a prelude to saying "we're about to get worse" (ala. we are about to trade vet talent for youth/ future cap).

                      Also, I listened to a good interview w/ D.Morway who spoke "optimisticly" of some trades happening before the deadline. He spoke that while they are some-what frustrated w/ Rush's inconsistency, they know he was similuar at Kansas his first 2 yrs, then expanded as he became a "vet" (w/ the implication that as Troy, Mike, TJ, Foster leave, Rush goes from "new guy" to team "vet", you will see him be more vocal/ charismatic). He did not get too indepth w/ JO'B, but you get the feel Jim is helping LB "tread water" till '11. IMO w/ different talent, you will see some style changes & focus.

                      Now, Seth, others, it this "Nothing News" really worth the pissing & moaning I've been reading? The "I quit, this is B.S." attidude .... Seriously guys.....
                      Remember, this is a business, & while you may see Larry as "the Man", the fact is he is an employee. He has orders & he knows things we don't. The one thing that he did not change, thus the reason I see no need to react is that we are still following "The 3 Year Plan". Nothing new there.
                      AH! Someone with some common sense!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Bird asks for our patience...

                        No Will, you don't come out and tell a fanbase that is absolutely through with an awful coach (or who is now perceived as an awful coach) that he's your man.

                        You either keep quiet or make a real non-statement. Bird just went from me saying the jury is still out on him to saying he needs to be gone himself. I have no patience for this stuff because patience is what kills franchises.

                        Bird just squarely confirmed he's part of the mixed messages that O'Brien has been sending.

                        Fire them both.
                        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                        ------

                        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                        -John Wooden

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Bird asks for our patience...

                          I'm curious to hear David Morway's opinion.

                          Bird's statements are just outrageous.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Bird asks for our patience...

                            Originally posted by PacerGuy View Post
                            -We need to be smart enough to see thru the smoke & know that his words of patience, to me it is a prelude to saying "we're about to get worse" (ala. we are about to trade vet talent for youth/ future cap).

                            Also, I listened to a good interview w/ D.Morway who spoke "optimisticly" of some trades happening before the deadline. He spoke that while they are some-what frustrated w/ Rush's inconsistency, they know he was similuar at Kansas his first 2 yrs, then expanded as he became a "vet" (w/ the implication that as Troy, Mike, TJ, Foster leave, Rush goes from "new guy" to team "vet", you will see him be more vocal/ charismatic). He did not get too indepth w/ JO'B, but you get the feel Jim is helping LB "tread water" till '11. IMO w/ different talent, you will see some style changes & focus.
                            Except losing the vets won't make us worse.
                            TJ...we'll get better.
                            Dun...we'll get better.
                            Murphy...thin in the front court, but I think if Hans is back..the combo of him and Tyler will be better.
                            In fact, losing Earl or DJones (obviously assuming Danny is off the table) would be about the only two players that would hurt the team. I've been questioning Earl a bit, considering Cleveland could use a point guard.


                            I also think Bird really really slights his fan base. If we were all watching a lineup of Price, Rush, Granger, Hans/McBob/Solo, Hibbert there wouldn't be much complaints. Fans would understand and look for positives. But when you throw TJ/Dun/DJones/Granger/Murphy on the floor..we get annoyed.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Bird asks for our patience...

                              How long until someone starts a "if we don't make changes, i'm not watching/attending games anymore until JOBs fired and/or Troy and TJ are traded"? I'd be the first to cosign it. And now it's getting bad. Seth is on boat too with not resigning his season tickets. I'm sick of this franchise, its getting Memphis Grizzlies/Pittsburgh Pirates bad. We have a solid chance of trading a player that has a negative outcome in our wins and losses, for a player in Jason Thompson who dropped 25 on Murphy. And we're about to get a top 5 pick and draft a sad guy like Aldrich or Monroe because of their "experience".
                              "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

                              Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Bird asks for our patience...

                                Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
                                Correct what? Only time and better players are going to correct the Pacers problems. Bird has given us a time line and asked us to be patient until then.

                                As is, until the players think they have a chance no one is going to get them to play better.

                                It would really help if we would start off a season with a healthy team, and not a half dozen new players.
                                Go back 2 years and find Bird making a case for this timeline.

                                2 years ago we were still going to make the playoffs which is why he went for the players he did.

                                Why spend on Watson and Head and Jones this year if the team is just in a rebuild? Yes you need to fill out a roster, but there are cheaper "end of bench" guys than Head.

                                You could be developing Rush, Price and Josh more if you just didn't go add some of the more expensive vets. They aren't bank breakers, but the 21 year old kid out of the NBDL is even cheaper than that.


                                The moves made sense, but not in a 3 year plan way. They needed to IMPROVE the defense from last year, so they went after defensive players. Luther Head at the last second? Come on, that's got 3 point shooting guard written all over it, and rebuilding teams don't need that.

                                Bird's plan is loaded with it's own amount of double talk, and frankly I think half of it was co-opted from here. A couple of years ago a lot of us were saying "playoffs? are you kidding? this is time to rebuild".

                                So he wants his cake and to eat it too. He gets to try for the postseason and then when that's a disaster it's suddenly "oh, didn't we tell you, this is all part of the 3 year plan".

                                What, forcing Dunleavy to gimp out there night after night when he's not up to game shape and trying to rehab from a long term injury is part of the rebuild?

                                TJ to the bench, then back starting is rebuilding?



                                It's got all the makings of people in charge NOT having a vision and flip flopping from idea to idea as the market kills off their dreams. I get that they wanted to trade TJ and got stuck, but it feels like in many ways they were surprised by this turn of events and reacted late to it.

                                The same with Troy now.



                                I'm with McKeyFan, patience is code for "no trades at the deadline".

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