Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

[CableKC]

Although this topic has ( in some way ) been discussed, I wanted to explore it more in depth given the possiblility that Murphy could be traded to the Cavs. In today's more "athletic" and "mobile" NBA.....does it make sense to play Granger at the PF spot either as a Starter or a regular Backup?

Defensively ( at least for our current makeup until we get a more solid PF Low-Post defender ), a lineup that include Inferno/BRush/Granger/Hibbert is fairly solid. Clearly, our lineup would be way more athletic then before.

When looking at the makeup of the NBA as a whole.....it would seem that although there are still some traditional Low-Post scoring Big Men ( think ZBo, Aldridge, Brand, etc. ) ...is the trend in the NBA moving more towards having more athletic and quicker Big Men that can score in the post while venturing outside the paint ( think Anthony Randolph, Josh Smith, Dirk, Bosh )?

I guess the reason I bring this up is because of JO'Bs concern on matchups. Although it mainly pertains to Hibbert.....having a more mobile player at the PF spot that can score inside and out ( like Granger ) would be helpful.

I don't really want to turn this into a "Why Murphy isn't a consistent defender at the PF spot" or ( Seth's favorite topic ) a "Why McRoberts...doesn't play more minutes is a crime" debate.....I just want to discuss whether Granger could be a short term option at the PF spot ( either as a Starter or key backup ) for the next 1.5 seasons or not. Unless something drastically changes or Bird drafts a PF like Patterson ( as Seth suggests ), I don't think that we'd be able to acquire that type of PF that we all hope would fill our needs anytime soon.

[sportfireman]

Re: Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

he could but it seems danny's not as well built to bang and i dont think its in his nature to be that physical or that aggressive. you have to have a want, drive, desire, and the body to go out there and bang and bump every other night. remember danny had to be coached into driving the ball more. he's a lil more laid back.

[Infinite MAN_force]

Re: Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

From an offensive standpoint it creates a big time mismatch because most PFs are going to have a really hard time guarding granger, even the really good ones. On the other end, Granger has proven to be fairly effective gaurding guys like Bosh and Garnett. The big, strong, banging low post PFs will give him trouble, but overall I think it has been a net positive for the team.

With a guy like Roy in the middle, who is starting to turn into enough of a low post threat to consistently draw a double team, surrounding him with 4 perimeter players and spacing the floor has shown to be a good strategy. It has worked pretty well for the Magic. Granger is as much of a PF as Rashard Lewis, and a better overall player to boot.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

I love the idea. Yes, Danny can handle the PF position against 75% of the NBA with no problem at all. In fact, he was the PF during the historic 5 game winning streak.

What happens when you place Danny at PF is amazing. He improves the defense by being in a position to more fully utilize his abilities to block shots and rebound. For instance, he had 16 boards against GS while playing PF. He is quick and athletic for a PF and helps Hibbert in so many ways it makes me almost cry that he's not playing the position full time.

On offense, he is a mismatch nightmare for the opposition. It's worse than the matchup nightmares Amare Stoudemire causes. Danny can shoot it from 30 feet or drive right to the rim. He will force some teams to play small...and maybe not their best talent. It will help this team win if he plays that position.

As for head to head matchups with Pau Gasol, I think he lacks the height. Against Tim Duncan and Zach Randolph he lacks the strength and length a bit. Yes, some PF's will require a bigger Pacer. But that's only about 20% of the games. By far most games he's a big positive at that position...and for a team hovering in the .300's, it would be huge improvement.

[JohnnyBGoode]

Re: Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

I love the idea. Yes, Danny can handle the PF position against 75% of the NBA with no problem at all. In fact, he was the PF during the historic 5 game winning streak.

What happens when you place Danny at PF is amazing. He improves the defense by being in a position to more fully utilize his abilities to block shots and rebound. For instance, he had 16 boards against GS while playing PF. He is quick and athletic for a PF and helps Hibbert in so many ways it makes me almost cry that he's not playing the position full time.

On offense, he is a mismatch nightmare for the opposition. It's worse than the matchup nightmares Amare Stoudemire causes. Danny can shoot it from 30 feet or drive right to the rim. He will force some teams to play small...and maybe not their best talent. It will help this team win if he plays that position.

As for head to head matchups with Pau Gasol, I think he lacks the height. Against Tim Duncan and Zach Randolph he lacks the strength and length a bit. Yes, some PF's will require a bigger Pacer. But that's only about 20% of the games. By far most games he's a big positive at that position...and for a team hovering in the .300's, it would be huge improvement.

Hold on now! This is hilarious. ON one side of your mouth you say that stretch PFs are not what you need to win in the playoffs and out of the other side you think Danny would be a great PF. Which is it? I thought you wanted only the Dale Davis type players at the PF spot. Now I get it, you want any player that doesn't go by the name Murphy at that spot. Hate is not good for your health BG.

[Sookie]

Re: Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

He's the best PF on the team. Whether he should be playing out of position or not is a question.

Personally, with the way JOB likes to play, I think small ball with Granger at the four works best.

[JohnnyBGoode]

Re: Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

He's the best PF on the team. Whether he should be playing out of position or not is a question.

Depends on what your definition of "is" is.

[sportfireman]

Re: Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

He's the best PF on the team. Whether he should be playing out of position or not is a question.

thats what the thread is asking us...................

[Infinite MAN_force]

Re: Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

Depends on what your definition of "is" is.

Do you have anything to contribute besides whining on behalf of Troy Murphy? Just curious.

[JohnnyBGoode]

Re: Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

Do you have anything to contribute besides whining on behalf of Troy Murphy? Just curious.

Thinking that Danny is the answer at PF is contributing?

Whining? I fail to see the logic in posters repeating the same old bs about Murphy and passing it on as fact. WTF is an empty stat, anyway?

[Infinite MAN_force]

Re: Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

Thinking that Danny is the answer at PF is contributing?

Whining? I fail to see the logic in posters repeating the same old bs about Murphy and passing it on as fact. WTF is an empty stat, anyway?

There is a word for posters that only harp on one topic incessantly and constantly derail threads. A Troll.

This topic is about Granger, not Murphy. The Murphy situation is simple, He is a terrible fit next to Hibbert. Hibbert is the future, Murphy is not. End of story.

[Anthem]

Re: Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

Granger's mismatch as a PF isn't that he can shoot the 3, it's that he can drive the ball on any PF in the league. He's also far better than Troy, defensively.

Still, I don't like it. You may get some short-term success from it, but in the long term Danny's gonna take a beating and age prematurely. That's not what you want to do to your star. Put him in a position to succeed. Don't JO him.

[Naptown_Seth]

Re: Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

Cable, as you know from following the prospect thread it seems like a lot of "PF" prospects lately are really more like SFish type players, so with that trend Danny does work.

But, let's say for a second that I'm coaching. Obviously I'm using McRoberts a lot. He's quick, good hops and strong. Luckily for Danny McBob doesn't work the low post on offense so he won't get killed there, but on the glass he's going to suffer and on over the top passes McBob has an advantage. Josh is quick enough to not be exploited on face up drives given Danny's handles.

Danny beats him with 3s, but then that's Troy's method and now you are giving up the DEF rebounds too.

The point being that Josh isn't even a top notch PF, just that he's far closer to a traditional one. Not every team is buying into the small method that's popular, though obviously some are, so you are going to see plenty of nights where Danny is facing a skilled PF. Picture a Duncan/Blair combo vs Roy/Danny. They get destroyed on the glass and have trouble denying post position too.

I think as the trends swing toward small you'll see teams coming back to find an advantage with a more traditional power guy at the 4. And as that happens Danny's in trouble, and also getting beat up.

I see that change potentially beginning a lot sooner than 1.5 years. You know that I like Patterson, but there are also guys like Lawal, Booker, Favors that aren't in love with the face up game. Love isn't, Blair isn't.

So there is actually a fairly noticeable influx of traditional PF caliber talent coming in that I think will end up seeing coaches use that for an advantage.



Now, ultimately I guess the question is what are we doing to get by "until", as in until the team can be "finished". From that standpoint it might be that we just have to keep waiting for 2 years and that Danny at the PF might be part of that crutch. I don't think it would go well in the long term, but if you are giving up getting a true PF in order to fix something else like PG (Wall instead of a PF for example) then you bite the bullet and accept the long nights to come.

I'd rather have Danny at PF with some DJones SF help, or even the height of Dun at PF to help with rebounds a bit, than to have more double PG stuff with 2 of Watson/Price/Head on the court together, especially if that also means Rush pushed down to SF.

Going a bit small at PF isn't so bad if you have some size at the 2-3 to help with.

[Naptown_Seth]

Re: Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

it's that he can drive the ball on any PF in the league

No way Anthem. Not the quicker ones like Aldridge or Thomas, or even McBob. There are several slow footed guys, but not every PF that isn't a pure face up is too slow to stop Danny. His handles just aren't good enough.

Heck, we aren't that far removed from when he couldn't beat SFs with his dribble.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Hypothetical question - Could Granger be a short term solution at PF in today's NBA?

Hold on now! This is hilarious. ON one side of your mouth you say that stretch PFs are not what you need to win in the playoffs and out of the other side you think Danny would be a great PF. Which is it? I thought you wanted only the Dale Davis type players at the PF spot. Now I get it, you want any player that doesn't go by the name Murphy at that spot. Hate is not good for your health BG.

Jumping to conclusions again, huh?

In no way am I saying that Danny Granger is an ideal PF. However, unlike Troy, Danny can block shots and defend. Unlike Troy, Danny is mobile and athletic enough to help Hibbert protect the paint. Unlike Troy, Danny creates very difficult mismatch problems for the opponent. The fact he is far better than Troy in nearly every aspect of the game otherwise is only part of the reason he would be by far the best PF on this team.

On offense, Granger is much more than a stretch 4 because he is a major threat for driving to the bucket. Nobody is concerned about Troy going up in traffic and flushing it.

Seriously, try to think through this a little.