The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Which is more important

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  • #16
    Re: Which is more important

    Motion, without thought.

    More movement means more production. Proof of this is that we are much more fluid offensively when our best mover on offense, Dunleavy, is on the floor. Spacing is good, but it has nothing on moving the defense.


    • #17
      Re: Which is more important

      Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
      I've been trying for a year or two to figure out why I hate Orlando. You just answered the question.
      Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
      If I have to pick between spacing and motion, my choice is a top notch point guard.

      That makes two posts in a row without mention of the five-game win streak!
      And I won't be here to see the day
      It all dries up and blows away
      I'd hang around just to see
      But they never had much use for me
      In Levelland. (James McMurtry)


      • #18
        Re: Which is more important

        We agree you want both, right?

        Which is more likely to give you the other? Is motion more likely to give you decent spacing, or is decent spacing more likely to give you motion?

        Seems like you'd want motion first.
        This space for rent.


        • #19
          Re: Which is more important

          Originally posted by Peck View Post
          Spacing or motion on offense?

          Yes I know both have great value but if you could only have one be far superior to the other which would you prefer and why?
          Without yet reading the replies already posted,

          I would start off by saying you're correct in that you want/need both, so neither by itself will be all that you need in order to be effective.

          I could feel comfortable saying it really is pretty close to 50/50.

          However, I can envision spacing succeeding with less motion more easily than I can envision motion with poor spacing.

          I can see pick and roll plays where 3 other guys are in their "sweet spots" on the perimeter to force the defense to make the choice between helping on the P&R at the expense of leaving a good shooter open in his preferred position versus hoping you can stop it with just two players.

          I can see a 4-out offense feeding a low post scorer and again making the defense choose between helping on the post player at the expense of leaving a good shooter open or suffering the consequences of guarding him 1 on 1.

          And of course there's always the isolation play on the perimeter for your best scorers to take their man 1 on 1 while the others space the floor with their shooting ability/threat.

          With the right roster, you could just beat those 3 plays into the ground.

          However, the less able your talent is with regards to those scenarios, the more I think you need movement in order to have a chance at scoring.

          Maybe that word means different things to different people, but to me it can either mean off-ball movement and/or a lot of passing.

          I immediately think of a shooter coming off 2 to 3 screens a la Reggie Miller or Richard Hamilton.

          I think of the UCLA offense which always has weakside action to keep the defense honest and less focuses on the strong side of the floor.

          The triangle also has weakside action in this regard.

          Both of course have passing and cutting on the strong side.

          Any other offense I can mention will involve passing and moving. So obviously motion will play as important a role with them as spacing does.

          Ultimately I think the more elite talent you possess in the areas of 1 on 1 scoring, perimeter shooting, pick and roll execution, and low post scoring, the less motion you need as long as your execution level is very high through constant drilling/practicing.

          I believe that with those teams, you do those things and then take whatever you force the defense to give you if/when they try something different to stop you. Otherwise, if it's man to man defense, just execute with your talent.

          The less elite talent you have, the more everyone depends on one another, and the more you will have to lean on a team offense such as UCLA, triangle, princeton, etc.

          Teamwork is always important, but it's at a premium when the talent level drops.


          • #20
            Re: Which is more important

            Proper spacing is more important when running a set play. And IMO, running a set play you practice a million times is much less likely to result in silly turnovers and shaky guard play. But this free wheelin' headless chicken thing we got going just begs for it.

            Of course you need movement with purpose on offense. Motion is just people outsmarting themselves. IMO
            Last edited by Taterhead; 12-26-2009, 01:14 PM.
            "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"


            • #21
              Re: Which is more important

              Motion with purpose to create spacing.
              There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.


              • #22
                Re: Which is more important

                Originally posted by Putnam View Post
                And I think LA gets credit for seeing right through to the essence of what Peck was probably asking.
                I think he's asking about Mike Dunleavy Jr. and Troy Murphy .

                I think the answer to the question depends on the personnel and the strategy.

                Motion becomes less of a necessity as your talent increases (*edit* as I now see Hicks points out). We need motion because we don't have a lot of players that can create good shots.

                We have the spacing (Troy) but it's ineffective because we don't use it properly. You can use space to establish and inside/out or outside/in game, but since we're not running offense out of the post or using backdoor cuts with passes from the high post, it becomes useless.

                I believe our team is built for spacing but is more reliant upon motion, hence the 4th quarter collapses the past 3 seasons.


                • #23
                  Re: Which is more important

                  Originally posted by imawhat View Post
                  I think he's asking about Mike Dunleavy Jr. and Troy Murphy .

                  I think the answer to the question depends on the personnel and the strategy.

                  Motion becomes less of a necessity as your talent increases (*edit* as I now see Hicks points out). We need motion because we don't have a lot of players that can create good shots.

                  We have the spacing (Troy) but it's ineffective because we don't use it properly. You can use space to establish and inside/out or outside/in game, but since we're not running offense out of the post or using backdoor cuts with passes from the high post, it becomes useless.

                  I believe our team is built for spacing but is more reliant upon motion, hence the 4th quarter collapses the past 3 seasons.
                  So then I ask, is there ever a way we stop running "out of gas" or is it simply other teams outplay us in the 4th?

                  Motion seems to be more important in the first three quarters to us right now. The 4th quarter seems to always be about spacing, and that's why we loose. It seems like there is constantly someone wide open for three somewhere on the court, for the other team. They catch one of our guys out of position and the other team gets better spacing. It's usually on a fast play that turns the tide for them late in the game.

                  I see teams all the time using "movement with purpose" to get the win. I see it out of our squad as well, just rarely late in the game. Maybe our core players are still young and we are expecting too much out of them.

                  I for one believe Hibbert may be our best option late in the 4th. The other four guys need to learn how to move with purpose out there and feed off of Roy. Most of the time they just stand there and watch him. Roy has really impressed me with his evolving post abilities, espescially taking it baseline.

                  Roy gives us spacing, so we need movement around him. Until Granger gets back that is the only way to win IMO. TJ hurling up 3s when we only need 2s just isn't working. We need to run the offense through our best offensive weapon right now, Roy. I also don't see enough Hibbert/Hansboro lineups for my liking because I feel that puts us as close to 50/50 as we can be on spacing/movement in the post.

                  Although I think Hansboro still isn't moving without the ball the way I want him to. Too many times he is standing there. He just seems like he is hitting a rookie wall. Kinda like his brain is going blank with all this new stuff he is learning and he is still trying to take it all in. I'd give him a shorter learning curve than most. I'd say after the All Star break he will be hitting his stride. Espescially when teams start laying down the last 5-10 games, I'd expect huge numbers.
                  Last edited by Midcoasted; 12-26-2009, 04:35 PM.


                  • #24
                    Re: Which is more important

                    spacing and motion are counter-productive by definition. Which one is the most valuable depends entirely on which system you are running and what personnel you are using.

                    If you're playing an inside-out game, like the 94-95 Rockets, spacing is as important as breathing air. But if you're running a system featuring players not quite as capable of scoring 1-on-1, ala Sacramento or Utah, you find the best passes you can get, and run a princeton offense that relies on brains rather than athleticism.

                    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
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