Pacers/Knicks Postgame

[MyFavMartin]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

Going 5-1 since starting 0-3 is a lot better than being the Nets.

Game we should of had?

Yeah.

Considering we've been without Foster, Murph, and Dunleavy, the season is looking good.

Now only if Earl Watson wouldn't be -16...

And by the way, for all you Rush haters, he was +/- 0.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

I disagree, I think Watson and Jones are better defenders than Rush

I agree with this...but the gap between Rush and TJ is much wider.

BTW, when you put a better defender on the floor, it actually helps your other players defend. There is a synergy there that some people recognize and others don't. It changes the way your team looks on the floor...how they play. All you need to do is look at the change when D Jones subbed for Murph. It changed everything.

[D-BONE]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

Neither Watson nor Ford contained anybody on the ball in the fourth quarter. In fact, down the stretch in the deep fourth, Ford basically matador waved Larry Hughes right down a wide open lane to the hoop. Then couldn't stay within five yards of his man in a pick and roll that wound up as a Lee lay-in. He got caught cold ball gawking to allow a flat out embarrassing layup in the first half. Just awful.

I supposed nobody contained anybody, but I've seen no clear evidence that Ford or Watson are superior defenders to Rush. I think both Ford and Rush, in my observation, have great potential as defenders, but neither is consistenly focused and intensense. There's a lot of mental wandering by both of them. Ability is there, focus waxes and wanes too much. I'd say Ford is probably even worse than Rush.

[Unclebuck]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

This isn't even about Brandon. I have never agreed with coaches pointing out the flaws of players in the media. Would I want my boss pointing out everything negative I have done to the whole world? No. The press is not there to act as the coach's psychiatrist couch. Coaches should manipulate it for certain purposes and thats it.

You must hate Phil Jackson, larry Brown and larry Bird then

[idioteque]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

You must hate Phil Jackson, larry Brown and larry Bird then

Nah, that is kind of a blanket assumption, although I am definitely no fan of Larry Brown. And I think Larry Bird probably at least somewhat played the role of adult Boomer when he was our coach, while Jackson hasn't coached too many poor teams.

I don't know the extent to which these coaches do this, but there is probably not any coach whose basketball philosophy I completely agree with.

[Unclebuck]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

I agree with this...but the gap between Rush and TJ is much wider.

BTW, when you put a better defender on the floor, it actually helps your other players defend. There is a synergy there that some people recognize and others don't. It changes the way your team looks on the floor...how they play. All you need to do is look at the change when D Jones subbed for Murph. It changed everything.

You amd several others I guess are having a problem with Ford being on the court. Ford has hit several big shots late in game already this season and he is someone who can create a shot )(certainly better than Rush or Watson, so Ford needed to be out there, and then between Watson and Rush, I would have gone with watson also

[Anthem]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

Riddle me this, UB.

The strongest lineup we've had in our winning streak is Roy/Granger/Jones/Rush/Watson. It's been multiple games and attested to by multiple people. It was the lineup that got us the big lead in the 2nd.

Why didn't we try that lineup once in the 4th? Ok we were missing Granger due to fouls for part of it, but why not try it when he came in?

The issue's not really about Brandon, or even TJ. It's not about two point guards. It's about not going with a proven formula and instead falling back on the coach's pet theories.

EDIT: In the abstract, I can see how you might argue that TJ is better than Brandon. But basketball's a team game, and Brandon was on the floor and part of the unit that played well together.

[gummy]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

I think Watson is even better of the ball then he is on the ball, so yes.

Hmmm, I felt that Watson has been getting burned off the ball significantly more than Rush and defenders have been getting past DJones on the ball more often than they have past Rush. Brandon has also been very good at making defenders turn right into Hibbert (I think that's a big reason his blocks are up).

I routinely re-watch games focusing solely on the defensive end, but I've only gotten a chance to re-watch 3 of the games so far, so maybe I'm missing something. But even if we say that Brandon is the third best defensive player, that's not too shabby for your 2nd year player and it should be recognized by the coach, especially since supposedly defense is more important now (and the players have been playing much better D).

The problem I really have with JOB's statement about Rush struggling is that I have never once, not once, heard him say anything good about the kids defense. Whether you want to call him the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd best defender, he's a very good defender. Am I the only one that thinks it's a good coaching move to occasionally mention what a young player does well, especially when that young player is struggling with potential confidence issues on one end of the floor?

[Unclebuck]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

Neither Watson nor Ford contained anybody on the ball in the fourth quarter. In fact, down the stretch in the deep fourth, Ford basically matador waved Larry Hughes right down a wide open lane to the hoop. Then couldn't stay within five yards of his man in a pick and roll that wound up as a Lee lay-in. He got caught cold ball gawking to allow a flat out embarrassing layup in the first half. Just awful.

I supposed nobody contained anybody, but I've seen no clear evidence that Ford or Watson are superior defenders to Rush. I think both Ford and Rush, in my observation, have great potential as defenders, but neither is consistenly focused and intensense. There's a lot of mental wandering by both of them. Ability is there, focus waxes and wanes too much. I'd say Ford is probably even worse than Rush.

I have never even hinted much less suggested that Ford is as good of a defender as Rush

[Unclebuck]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

Riddle me this, UB.

The strongest lineup we've had in our winning streak is Roy/Granger/Jones/Rush/Watson. It's been multiple games and attested to by multiple people. It was the lineup that got us the big lead in the 2nd.

Why didn't we try that lineup once in the 4th? Ok we were missing Granger due to fouls for part of it, but why not try it when he came in?

I don't know that we didn't see that lineup in the fourth. I would have to go back and re-watch Maybe I'll DVR the fourth quarter. But I'm sure there is a good reason why we didn't if we didn't

Let me ask a question why is anyone suggesting lineups cost us the game tonight. That makes no sense to me

[gummy]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

You amd several others I guess are having a problem with Ford being on the court. Ford has hit several big shots late in game already this season and he is someone who can create a shot )(certainly better than Rush or Watson, so Ford needed to be out there, and then between Watson and Rush, I would have gone with watson also

It's not so much that I have a problem with TJ on the court in general. I recognize he hit several big shots in other games. He played really well for a couple of games in a row. His defense is improved overall.

But tonight he was not having a good game at all and Rush is a better defender. I would have liked to see Rush and Watson on the floor because Hibbert/Granger/DJones/Rush/Watson has been our best overall combo on the floor this season. When we've played our best, those guys, together, have usually been making it happen.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

You amd several others I guess are having a problem with Ford being on the court. Ford has hit several big shots late in game already this season and he is someone who can create a shot )(certainly better than Rush or Watson, so Ford needed to be out there, and then between Watson and Rush, I would have gone with watson also

This has more to do with what the Pacers very best lineup is (by some distance)...as Anthem has so accurately pointed out.

The phrase "you are only as strong as your weakest link" comes to mind. With that said, you are hard pressed to find the weakest link with Anthem's lineup. With TJ (or Murph), the weakest link is obvious....unless your priority is not defense.

[Unclebuck]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

Nah, that is kind of a blanket assumption, although I am definitely no fan of Larry Brown. And I think Larry Bird probably at least somewhat played the role of adult Boomer when he was our coach, while Jackson hasn't coached too many poor teams.

I don't know the extent to which these coaches do this, but there is probably not any coach whose basketball philosophy I completely agree with.

Each of those three coaches to it 100X more and much, much more direct and critical than anything O'Brien even approaches

[Unclebuck]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

It's not so much that I have a problem with TJ on the court in general. I recognize he hit several big shots in other games. He played really well for a couple of games in a row. His defense is improved overall.

But tonight he was not having a good game at all and Rush is a better defender. I would have liked to see Rush and Watson on the floor because Hibbert/Granger/DJones/Rush/Watson has been our best overall combo on the floor this season. When we've played our best, those guys, together, have usually been making it happen.

so that lineup would have won the game? simple as that?

[BlueNGold]

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame

JOb is prepping Rush for a trip to the bench. When Murphy returns, he will start again. ...and D Jones is the starting SG because he is obviously better than Brandon for the foreseeable future.