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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Everyone do yourself a favor

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  • #46
    Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

    Originally posted by JayRedd View Post
    Great post. Who hacked your account?
    I have no idea what just happened. This guy offered me 3 million dollars to walk to the kitchen and make myself a sandwich while leaving the computer on.
    Last edited by rexnom; 10-09-2008, 12:13 AM.

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    • #47
      Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

      Originally posted by croz24 View Post
      riiight...the pacers are headed for another 5 years of mediocrity with the strategy they are using. meanwhile, portland has assembled the best young team in the nba stockpiled with future stars in fernandez, roy, oden, aldridge, bayless, webster, etc...the pacers don't want to be anything like portland the blazers are headed towards deep playoff runs/nba championships while the pacers are maintaining right in the middle.

      anybody who wants to disagree with the fact that high draft picks are what make nba title contenders are trying to argue with history. very few teams in nba history have sniffed a title without a franchise, nba star who was drafted in the top five.

      When was the last time a team won the playoffs with rookies? Yes they have drafted well. But that does not mean they will have deep playoff runs. I really want to see how many of these players stay with this team after their rookie contracts are up.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

        Originally posted by Peck View Post
        Actually both Aldridge and Roy were trades that the Blazers worked out. They had a very very very aggressive G.M. who went out made a lot of trades.

        They swindled both the Bulls and the Wolves.

        However this being the first season of Bird and Morroway I think they have done a fine job as well so no hate from me on this.
        Ditto
        Just like buying the pick to get Rudy. Heck, Bayless might not be all that involved and it's not like having the Oden pick helped them last year and yet they really improved.

        If the Pacers have to get as bad as the Blazers did they might not last. The city doesn't seem to be ready to handle a 25 win season right now, let alone 2 in a row.

        Oh by the way, the Hornets didn't have to lose anywhere close to the level the Blazers did, in fact they were "stuck" just below .500 which some claim is "blowing it by not losing enough" and yet here they are well past the Blazers already.

        Portland has done a great job of acquiring players, but to me this is just the new Bulls - the franchise that some Pacers fans point to and say "see, they did it right". It's not that long ago that people said the Pacers needed a coach like Skiles instead of Rick and needed to have that great core of young talent plus the cap space to sign a big name free agent. Heck, they even pulled out a big mid-season trade when things got stalled.

        Remind me how's that greener grass working out again?


        It happens every year in every city where a team is struggling. Someone looks at the team on top and says "that's how you do it", totally ignoring the 2-3 other teams losing their asses off doing it the exact same way. Just see the Mariners and Rays in MLB and talk about spending to win is the only way.


        The best formula I've ever seen is establishing a consistency and tone (reduce the turnover levels) and then showing the patience to let a group of players develop in that situation together. Maybe you add a dash of free agency flare, maybe you get lucky with a top pick but neither are sure fire solutions by any stretch.

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        • #49
          Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

          Originally posted by croz24 View Post
          riiight...the pacers are headed for another 5 years of mediocrity with the strategy they are using. meanwhile, portland has assembled the best young team in the nba stockpiled with future stars in fernandez, roy, oden, aldridge, bayless, webster, etc...the pacers don't want to be anything like portland the blazers are headed towards deep playoff runs/nba championships while the pacers are maintaining right in the middle.

          anybody who wants to disagree with the fact that high draft picks are what make nba title contenders are trying to argue with history. very few teams in nba history have sniffed a title without a franchise, nba star who was drafted in the top five.
          Well, I don't think anybody is disagreeing that top-five talent wins championships. The thing we're all disagreeing with is whether top-five picks win championships. Chauncey Billups didn't win a championship for Boston, he won one for Detroit. Credit goes to Joe Dumars who signed him, not Rick Pitino who tanked to draft him. There are exceptions to this rule with some no-brainer number one picks, I think: Duncan, LeBron and probably Oden.

          The same goes for Portland. As I described above, they've used assets to get their key guys. Of all the guys you mentioned, Portland only really drafted Oden. Everyone else was an acquisition that theoretically could have been made by anyone. The difference is Kevin Pritchard.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

            Not bad for a Rookie debut, Rudy put up 10 pts / 5 reb / 6 ast / 2 stl in 30 minutes so far.

            I know....it's against a Warriors preseason squad that was playing scrubs....but it's not bad for a debut in the NBA.
            Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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            • #51
              Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

              Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
              Bingo. For some (not that I'm thinking of Shade specfically), the draft is solely about drafting the 'best player available.' And those that pursue this strategy are often filled with mismatched teams and disappointment. For others, they are drafting to fit players together into a team, understanding the strenghts and weaknesses of both the existing team and the potential draft choices.
              That's not really fair, to be honest. Look at the Hawks. They went "best player available" in 2005 when they passed on Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Ramond Felton for Marvin Williams. Then in 2006, there wasn't a PG worthy of that pick, so they filled another need, taking Shelden Williams instead of the "best player available" which was Roy, or maybe Rudy Gaye (at the time). They then stuck with that whole "fill your needs" thing in 2007 you endorse, picking up Acie Law while passing on Thaddeus Young, Julian Wright, and Al Thornton, which were the next three picks.

              While I think needs are important, there's a time for that, and there's a time to get the best player available, and knowing when to do each is the most important aspect of being a smart GM in the draft.

              Back on topic, Rudy was really impressive, and the Blazers are the most loaded team in the league, in terms of pure talent. Now, to see if they can make it work for them, and to see if Paul Allen is willing to have a payroll exceeding 100 million, which will be necessary if he wants to keep that team together.
              Last edited by Eindar; 10-09-2008, 12:20 AM.

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              • #52
                Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

                Originally posted by croz24 View Post
                riiight...the pacers are headed for another 5 years of mediocrity with the strategy they are using. meanwhile, portland has assembled the best young team in the nba stockpiled with future stars in fernandez, roy, oden, aldridge, bayless, webster, etc...the pacers don't want to be anything like portland the blazers are headed towards deep playoff runs/nba championships while the pacers are maintaining right in the middle.

                anybody who wants to disagree with the fact that high draft picks are what make nba title contenders are trying to argue with history. very few teams in nba history have sniffed a title without a franchise, nba star who was drafted in the top five.

                When was the last time a team won the playoffs with rookies? Yes they have drafted well. But that does not mean they will have deep playoff runs. I really want to see how many of these players stay with this team after their rookie contracts are up.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

                  Originally posted by justinDOHMAN View Post
                  When was the last time a team won the playoffs with rookies? Yes they have drafted well. But that does not mean they will have deep playoff runs. I really want to see how many of these players stay with this team after their rookie contracts are up.
                  That's the cry of the doubter, for sure, and in most cases, you'd be right. The problem, this time, is that Portland can offer more money than any other team, because they're re-signing their own players, and the owner, Paul Allen, is rich beyond our wildest dreams, and can easily afford to pay all of his players fair market value. Some of them might leave so that they can try to be Batman instead of Robin (see: Joe Johnson, Stephon Marbury), but I don't think they'll be leaving because of an unwillingness or inability to pay them.

                  Also, FWIW, The Rockets won a title with a rookie PG, and I think the Lakers won a title with Magic Johnson as a rookie (might be wrong there), but in both of those situations, they had veteran HoF'ers on the roster. The Blazers won't win the title this year, but they'll be in the hunt every year for the next decade if the players all decide to stay.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

                    Originally posted by rexnom View Post
                    Well, I don't think anybody is disagreeing that top-five talent wins championships. The thing we're all disagreeing with is whether top-five picks win championships. Chauncey Billups didn't win a championship for Boston, he won one for Detroit. Credit goes to Joe Dumars who signed him, not Rick Pitino who tanked to draft him. There are exceptions to this rule with some no-brainer number one picks, I think: Duncan, LeBron and probably Oden.

                    The same goes for Portland. As I described above, they've used assets to get their key guys. Of all the guys you mentioned, Portland only really drafted Oden. Everyone else was an acquisition that theoretically could have been made by anyone. The difference is Kevin Pritchard.
                    kevin pritchard is just one of the few sane gms around.

                    pretty sure portland traded the #7 pick for the #6 pick to nab roy. and traded the #4 pick for the #2 to land aldridge. those assets were other high draft picks.

                    good job of naming billups. but again, the guy was a top pick in the draft. the pacers are in a position where no top player will come here via free agency. therefore, the only way the pacers can become great is through trade or the draft. now, i may be wrong here, but last i checked the pacers have NEVER won a championship. do any of you not think it's time to change your perception on how to develop a winner??? the pacers have used this same strategy since the early '90s and it's not won us a damn thing.

                    high draft picks, whether traded for, used as assets in a trade for an established star, or kept, are historically what wins you championships. of course you need a smart gm to know who to draft otherwise you do end up like the clippers (although most of that was on sterling), but nobody can doubt that the vast majority of franchise/star players who have won it all or at least kept their team(s) in contention, came from the top 5-6 picks in the draft.

                    *one exception to this historically has been high school players coming out

                    and naptown, there's a reason the hornets became instant winners...THEY DRAFTED CHRIS PAUL #4 OVERALL. how did orlando instantly become meaningful? dwight howard #1 overall. what about the cavs? lebron james #1 overall. the jazz? deron williams #3 overall. the rockets? yao ming #1 overall. the heat? dwayne wade #5 overall. the raptors? chris bosh #4 overall. the nuggets? carmelo anthony #3 overall.

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                    • #55
                      Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

                      Originally posted by croz24 View Post
                      kevin pritchard is just one of the few sane gms around.

                      pretty sure portland traded the #7 pick for the #6 pick to nab roy. and traded the #4 pick for the #2 to land aldridge. those assets were other high draft picks.
                      However, they did trade Telfair, a former 13th pick (where the Pacers top pick this year came from, incidentally), to get number 7.

                      and naptown, there's a reason the hornets became instant winners...THEY DRAFTED CHRIS PAUL #4 OVERALL. how did orlando instantly become meaningful? dwight howard #1 overall. what about the cavs? lebron james #1 overall. the jazz? deron williams #3 overall. the rockets? yao ming #1 overall. the heat? dwayne wade #5 overall. the raptors? chris bosh #4 overall. the nuggets? carmelo anthony #3 overall.
                      Wait. Isn't your point that the Pacers should win champiosnhips and not just be "meaningful"? None of the teams you mentioned has yet won a championship except for the Heat, who did so when they acquired a top-5 talent (Shaq) with their own, non-top 5 drafted assets.

                      Further, looking at the Celtics of this year, the way they won a championship was by acquiring a top-5 talent (KG), not by drafting one. Actually, you could argue that they won by acquiring and drafting non-top 5 pick players (Gomes, Telfair, Jefferson, Green). The Pacers could easily put together a similar package. That package is the equivalent (more or less) of the Pacers offering McRoberts, Rush, Granger and Williams (with salary filler). If this was last year, we probably could have thrown together a package of picks and expirings using Foster and Daniels to get Ray Allen as well. In fact, I'm sure you could make the argument that a Tinsley/Jack-Ray Allen-Dunleavy-KG-O'Neal team wouldn't be half-bad. That's a crude example, obviously. The point is just that if you don't get lucky with high picks at the right time like Cleveland or New Orleans then you can make up for it with shrewd GMing. I really think we're starting to see this from the Bird-Morway administration, which seems to have the clear plan of attack/direction the Walsh-Bird administration was lacking.
                      Last edited by rexnom; 10-09-2008, 01:59 AM.

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                      • #56
                        Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

                        Originally posted by rexnom View Post
                        However, they did trade Telfair, a former 13th pick (where the Pacers top pick this year came from, incidentally), to get number 7.

                        Wait. Isn't your point that the Pacers should win champiosnhips and not just be "meaningful"? None of the teams you mentioned has yet won a championship except for the Heat, who did so when they acquired a top-5 talent (Shaq) with their own, non-top 5 drafted assets.

                        Further, looking at the Celtics of this year, the way they won a championship was by acquiring a top-5 talent (KG), not by drafting one. Actually, you could argue that they won by acquiring and drafting non-top 5 pick players (Gomes, Telfair, Jefferson, Green). The Pacers could easily put together a similar package. That package is the equivalent (more or less) of the Pacers offering McRoberts, Rush, Granger and Williams (with salary filler). If this was last year, we probably could have thrown together a package of picks and expirings using Foster and Daniels to get Ray Allen as well. In fact, I'm sure you could make the argument that a Tinsley/Jack-Ray Allen-Dunleavy-KG-O'Neal team wouldn't be half-bad. That's a crude example, obviously. The point is just that if you don't get lucky with high picks at the right time like Cleveland or New Orleans then you can make up for it with shrewd GMing.
                        of course my point is about championships. however, naptown wanted to mention the how the hornets got good rather quickly after being irrelevant for years. whereas the blazers have struggled to reach contender status while having quite a few top picks recently. high draft picks is not only where you find your title winning hall of famers, but it's also where you find leaders who turn you into legit title contenders...sure you usually need a solid bench/supporting cast to win it all, but the nba is a superstar league. one player can make or break a team's chance of winning it all. the nba is the most individual team sport out there with just about every all time great having won a title.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

                          Originally posted by croz24 View Post
                          of course my point is about championships. however, naptown wanted to mention the how the hornets got good rather quickly after being irrelevant for years. whereas the blazers have struggled to reach contender status while having quite a few top picks recently. high draft picks is not only where you find your title winning hall of famers, but it's also where you find leaders who turn you into legit title contenders...sure you usually need a solid bench/supporting cast to win it all, but the nba is a superstar league. one player can make or break a team's chance of winning it all. the nba is the most individual team sport out there with just about every all time great having won a title.
                          Look, a high pick is great. But it's not a sure-fire way to do things (i.e. tanking). The prime example is the Hawks who drafted before the Hornets that year but somehow missed out on Chris Paul.

                          My point is just that the best way of running a team is to do your best to get the players you need and always try to win. Good players will become available, opportunities will arise. You don't HAVE to get a top-five pick. Detroit is a prime example of this. They won 50 games instead of getting high picks and they went out got their stars in ways that became available. In Detroit's case, they traded away a top-five pick that they had acquired (Stackhouse) and subsequently acquired a new one (Rasheed Wallace) not by drafting but by trading a future good pick (an arguable top-five talent in his draft, Josh Smith). Curiously, they also had a top-five pick the summer before that trade was made and that top-five pick was an absolute non-factor in their championship. For them, the solution was not their own high draft picks but rather someone else's. (Sidenote: the wise Pistons of course had acquired that top-five pick beforehand in 1997, proving once again that it's not about where you pick but rather about what you acquire). Who knows, maybe the Pacers will have the opportunity to do the same one day.
                          Last edited by rexnom; 10-09-2008, 02:17 AM.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

                            Croz, I'm not as dismissive of your views as some, but I would like to point out that we do have a #3 overall draft pick on this team as well as a #8 overall pick, and no less than 4 lottery picks on this team, so according to your own statements, we should already have a great team.

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                            • #59
                              Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

                              Originally posted by Eindar View Post
                              Croz, I'm not as dismissive of your views as some, but I would like to point out that we do have a #3 overall draft pick on this team as well as a #8 overall pick, and no less than 4 lottery picks on this team, so according to your own statements, we should already have a great team.
                              of course there are high draft picks on all teams. i've acknowledged this in the past. and i repeat that a high pick does not guarantee a title contender. not having a high pick as your franchise player pretty much guarantees you won't contend though (with the exceptions being high school players). the pacers just aren't going anywhere with these mediocre draft picks. sure a great gm will pull a solid player from anywhere in the draft, but hall of famers are drafted in slots 1-7. we need a franchise player and the draft is the only way this team can realistically do that. unfortunately, last year was the year to tank. i'm not entirely sold on bj mullens and as good as i think demar derozan could be, he's not in the beasley, rose, oden, durant class. most teams in nba history had to be bad before they got good.

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                              • #60
                                Re: Everyone do yourself a favor

                                rexnom - and any competent gm wouldn't screw that hawks pick up. good scouting should rarely result in drafting mistakes.

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