A series of questions....

[BillS]

Re: A series of questions....

Peck,

Very well written and on point. If only I could get that same type of thoughtful, literate commentary from callers to the radio program.

MJB

Mark, if you're prepared to blow past commerical breaks I'm prepared to use/waste 20 minutes of air time with a call.

In all seriousness, it strikes me that there are a number of well-informed and very articulate fans on this forum (Seth, UB, Peck, among others) as well as some who just articulate (like me). Focusing one of the call-in shows or even one of the talk segments with either in-studio or remote appearances by a few of them as representatives of the active fan base for the Pacers would seem to be a great idea.

[BillS]

Re: A series of questions....

In an effort to mimic Peck, I too will let it out.

*snip*

In some ways that's more embarrassing than the brawl.

[Dr. Goldfoot]

Re: A series of questions....

Why? The group of guys I watched that game with still talk about how crazy that was. We were so revved up that night. We kept getting closer and closer to the TV, louder and louder "Oh my gawd. Did you see that?" "Yes! Yes!....No! No! what are you doing?....Yes!" "Oh can you imagine JO running full speed and clocking you in your jaw like that?" "Check out Tinsley. He has a dustpan!" We actually made my dog pee all over the place that night. That was hilarious.

Too bad it was our team, but I wouldn't have been able to see it live otherwise.

[duke dynamite]

Re: A series of questions....

In all seriousness, it strikes me that there are a number of well-informed and very articulate fans on this forum (Seth, UB, Peck, among others) as well as some who just articulate (like me). Focusing one of the call-in shows or even one of the talk segments with either in-studio or remote appearances by a few of them as representatives of the active fan base for the Pacers would seem to be a great idea.

Since I have such a long drive home from the games, I usually make it a habit to pop in on Kevin Lee's show. I am always amused at the array of obvious questions that are asked, especially after Kevin has addressed that particular topic in a previous call.

With all that said, I've tried to throw in some "thinkers" (for the common folk) from time to time to stimulate the dullness of the show. Just some things that are other than, "Who do you think we will trade Jermaine for?" or "When are they going to bench Tinsley?".

If it weren't for the blasted cell phone reception (or lack therof) every so often, we'd have ourselves a great show.

[Dr. Goldfoot]

Re: A series of questions....

I think some of you guys just take it too damn serious. It is just entertainment afterall. I'm a huge Pacer fan. I can still see the joy of watching a professional basketball team get into a brawl with a stadium full of fans.......and I'm certainly not the only one.

[Jay@Section12]

Re: A series of questions....

I think I vomitted at the end of the end of brawl, before going to bed and not sleeping. It made my stomach turn.

To each their own, I guess.

[duke dynamite]

Re: A series of questions....

Why? The group of guys I watched that game with still talk about how crazy that was. We were so revved up that night. We kept getting closer and closer to the TV, louder and louder "Oh my gawd. Did you see that?" "Yes! Yes!....No! No! what are you doing?....Yes!" "Oh can you imagine JO running full speed and clocking you in your jaw like that?" "Check out Tinsley. He has a dustpan!" We actually made my dog pee all over the place that night. That was hilarious.

Too bad it was our team, but I wouldn't have been able to see it live otherwise.

Of course you guys were loving it. Alcohol and fighting go hand in hand. You guys were drunk and wanted to see a show.

It doesn't matter. You don't have to try and rationalize your glee for the brawl. It was dumb, end of story.

Is it lonely in your hole?

I think some of you guys just take it too damn serious. It is just entertainment afterall. I'm a huge Pacer fan. I can still see the joy of watching a professional basketball team get into a brawl with a stadium full of fans.......and I'm certainly not the only one.

I'm taking it seriously because it has been over 4 years since I've seen good basketball. I'm not wasting my money to see crap like this happen.

You aren't the only one because there were thousands of people drinking that night when that happened. Of course people are going to like that. Save me another 4 years of embarassment and harassment for being a supporting fan and let it go.

If you want to watch a fight, go to a boxing or UFC match. There you can get drunk and beat up on all your friends in the parking lot.

I'm sure it won't hurt.

[Hicks]

Re: A series of questions....

It may not of been great basketball and it certainly wasn't good for the Pacers, but for a dude in his mid-30's who sits around and watches 82 basketball games a year with a group of like minded beer drinkers we had a great time that night. It was awesome.

What can I say, I though it was fun to watch. I still think it's fun to watch.


Edit....I'm actually being serious. I'm a big basketball fan, too. You just don't see that ...ever.

Why? The group of guys I watched that game with still talk about how crazy that was. We were so revved up that night. We kept getting closer and closer to the TV, louder and louder "Oh my gawd. Did you see that?" "Yes! Yes!....No! No! what are you doing?....Yes!" "Oh can you imagine JO running full speed and clocking you in your jaw like that?" "Check out Tinsley. He has a dustpan!" We actually made my dog pee all over the place that night. That was hilarious.

Too bad it was our team, but I wouldn't have been able to see it live otherwise.

I think some of you guys just take it too damn serious. It is just entertainment afterall. I'm a huge Pacer fan. I can still see the joy of watching a professional basketball team get into a brawl with a stadium full of fans.......and I'm certainly not the only one.

That is pathetic.

[duke dynamite]

Re: A series of questions....

That is pathetic.

Very.

[Dr. Goldfoot]

Re: A series of questions....

I'm sure my perspective of the night would come off better in person. I'm not some drunken, fightin' immature kid. My skin is thick enough to take the potshots some of you are throwing my way, though.

To answer one of the original questions people quit going to games when it became unfashionable to attend a Pacer game. Right now, you're cool if you have Colts tickets because they're good and have a new stadium and some transcendent players just like it was when the Pacers had Reggie, a new fieldhouse and were contenders.

[Naptown_Seth]

Re: A series of questions....

I'm sorta with Goldfoot on this one. I don't think it was right and I hated what it did to the Pacers, but on the other hand people LOVE watching a John Ford western break into a bar brawl. That's good wholesome fun if Wayne's decking some guy.

Mentioning Slap Shot is great because it's true, people see those moments as funny, POSITIVE character moments. They like to see the hero dish it out even to people that in real life wouldn't deserve it.

That NY/DEN thing had us all buzzing when it happened during a PD get together. These things do draw attention and interest.

This is not the same as seeing someone truly hurt, that's when it turns ugly and disgusting. And I agree that as you let that Detroit thing go you were running a high risk of serious injury.

It's just that the moral outrage is stupid from a fan base that runs right back out to watch Jackie Chan in action or runs down to an Ice game to hoot while the hometown wing decks the goalie out of nowhere.

Fans CHEERED when Dale Davis ran down to help Tony and choked the hell out of whoever that was (I forget).



And as I always do, I turn to the Colts as the counter to any arguments that clear the fanbase's name in this matter. These people left PEYTON FREAKING MANNING high and dry on many games. They skipped games and called into shows to say that he and Dungy were big game chokers.

One of them was named Shade and had a meltdown right before the SB run began.

If the city had this history of outstanding sports support then you could use them as a measuring stick for the team. But the fact is they don't.

MSA curtains were the NORM. That says it all and long before these incidents. Let alone the pining for the ABA team that did like to have a drink, pose in undies for a calender or mix it up with someone on a rough night.

[Unclebuck]

Re: A series of questions....

I think some of you guys just take it too damn serious. It is just entertainment afterall. I'm a huge Pacer fan. I can still see the joy of watching a professional basketball team get into a brawl with a stadium full of fans .......and I'm certainly not the only one.

Wow, I must strongly disagree. Seeing Artest run into the stands was one of the scariest things I have ever seen and I'll never forget the way it made me feel - sort of like seeing a close friend driving down the wrong way of a one way street and knowing impending doom was just ahead. The whole incident was scary and it impacted me a great deal that night and what almost 4 years later - no it will be a night I'll never forget.

But then I don't like to see fights - not sure what it is but the certain gene that males have that allows them to enjoy fights - I just don't have that gene I guess. Hockey fights do nothing for me. In movies it is a little different because it is fake

[ABADays]

Re: A series of questions....

1. Knowing that ticket sales have already increased can we just write off the fact that the culture of the team has changed and in changing this some of the fans are returning?

Tinsley still represents one of the significant links from the past. I think true fans see the culture change. When Tinsley is gone the more casual fan fan will come back and if they put together some kind of season all will be well.

2. Was the win loss % the only reason for last seasons attendance?

Partly

3. Was the economy the only reason for last seasons attendance?

No

4. Was a combination of the economy and win/loss % the only reasons for last seasons attendance?

No

5. If neither of these or the combination of these was the reason, what other reasons are there?


1. Am I wrong to feel that the team (owners and Walsh) never took actual responsibility for the actions of our players?

I'm sorry but I don't agree with assuming responsibility for idiots. Dealing wth them is another issue. I always had a feeling the Simons were holding the front office at bay trying to deal with this at the league level.

2. If I am wrong, remember these are about feelings not facts, then was I the only person who felt that way? Or is it possible that a few others out there felt the same way and that this combined with other incidents where the management didn't respond with dissaproval of the players, might have kept a couple of people away?

I agree that following incidents and the appearance of not doing anything contributed.

3. Was Ron Artest as popular at the fieldhouse as he was online?

Apparently

4. Was Steven Jackson unfairly painted by his actions at the brawl?

Absolutely not. His body language showed me he was looking for a fight.

5. Was Jermaine O'Neal an innocent vicitim of the brawl?

I think to a large degree yes.

I still think to this day David Stern was just be a napoleonic pr*ck. I was enraged then and not much better now about the Pistons being held virtually blameless.

I think it is important to say here that a lot of the sunshine brigade had returned to me this season. Efforts are being made that I think are virtually perfect. Restore the Pride!

[count55]

Re: A series of questions....

Fans CHEERED when Dale Davis ran down to help Tony and choked the hell out of whoever that was (I forget).

Michael Smith

[duke dynamite]

Re: A series of questions....

Wow, I must strongly disagree. Seeing Artest run into the stands was one of the scariest things I have ever seen and I'll never forget the way it made me feel - sort of like seeing a close friend driving down the wrong way of a one way street and knowing impending doom was just ahead. The whole incident was scary and it impacted me a great deal that night and what almost 4 years later - no it will be a night I'll never forget.

But then I don't like to see fights - not sure what it is but the certain gene that males have that allows them to enjoy fights - I just don't have that gene I guess. Hockey fights do nothing for me. In movies it is a little different because it is fake

I have to agree with John Candy here and say that my heart sunk into my stomach that night watching those events unfold.

As much as I hate every other team, I would not wish that upon any franchise. Drunk or sober.

Watching the Denver/NY fight, only made the images of the Detroit Brawl look more and more realistic. That and the fact that they were saying, "Remember, not too long ago this in Auburn Hills happened..."

So no, it's not a funny joke. This is one thing I can not look back and laugh at, either.