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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Four Big Questions Surround JO's Future w/Pacers

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  • #31
    Re: Four Big Questions Surround JO's Future w/Pacers

    The % of the times that the ball went through O'Neal increased.
    Based on what stat or fact?

    That's my point. I've not said JO didn't complain so you didn't have to prove that he did.

    I didn't say the offense didn't change, and in fact said just the opposite, again no reason to prove that.

    I said that nothing indicated that JO demanded the ball more. JO touched the ball nearly every play BEFORE his rant, it was just in the high post.

    You must admit that you strongly dislike JO and perhaps aren't reliable as a neutral observer in that regard. You've blasted him for a long time, certainly before this moment and thus were primed to view it as proof of something that you have NO REASON to believe went the way you said it did, ie "I need more touches".

    Prove to me that JO didn't say "I'm sick of the lazy defense and I'm sick of Jackson taking crap shots, you've got to get after these guys Rick instead of letting them walk all over you."

    You can't. So my point remains that we don't know that JO said "give me more touches", and paired with the fact that he statistically didn't appear to get more touches indicates that presenting this as a KNOWN fact is still 100% wrong.

    J.O.'s rant ended up putting Danny on the bench, getting his buddy Harrington ultimately benched and disgruntled and at the end of the day traded
    Oh it did. It had nothing to do with the team struggling and wanting to get Foster into the starting lineup? Oh I forgot, you also don't think much of Foster and get upset if I dare to compare him to Dale as a rebounder because he doesn't get the tough rebounds.

    To me the much simpler explanation, the non-conspiracy version, makes the most sense. Team was spinning it's wheels and had gotten off to slow starts. You change the starters to impact that.

    You didn't mention Jackson going to the bench for Quis/Rawle I notice. Not an accident IMO, it's part of the bias where you only notice the things you don't like. To me I see all the changes as part of the same thing, trying to find a group of starters that didn't get off to a slow start.

    Jack bench didn't help, he came back. Danny had a HORRIBLE +/-, worst on the team, so naturally you look to get a vet with a more positive impact in the game. That didn't quite work and it became apparent that Al was the part not fitting.

    Why is that JO's rant, or did JO also rant to Nellie in Golden St? Maybe you can blame JO's rant for Saras being moved too.

    Or maybe sometimes things are as simple as they appear on face value. JO wasn't good in the high post, the team wasn't good at running. I wasn't the only one complaining about this BEFORE JO's rant. Every play down JO touched the ball outside the arc or in the high post, PnR, ball handoff or fed someone and turned to face up on the FT line area. He often got the kick out for his jump shot. Is this how JO should be used?


    It's not up to a player to dictate? As if Bird, Magic, Jordan never let their coach know how they felt and their opinions were never considered. You've got Bird in the paper saying "JO needs to step up and lead" but doesn't help guide him personally, show him how to become that leader. I think that affects how JO tries to interact with the team. I agree it's not his thing, that's a fault that limits him from being THE guy, but it doesn't make him insincere when he tries.

    Also this was about Jermaine O'Neal getting his, pure and simple. Do you believe that if J.O. was getting enough shots a game and we were losing that he would march into the office and say "hey, this isn't working. Why don't we run some plays so that Danny can more open looks". No, I don't think so either.
    And we are back at the start. JO DID DO THIS. The team was floundering with uninspired play but JO WAS GETTING HIS SHOTS. THEN HE RANTED and got the same amount of shots after that. So it wasn't about shots, you just want it to be.



    I appreciate the banana and have the same sentiment. It's not dislike, just friends with one serious disagreement. I really think you let your Dale love bleed into JO discussions (and Foster). I loved Dale too but JO is a different guy in a different situation.


    The problem with JO is that he's been hurt and hasn't been a reliable $18m+ type of offensive force. Inside he hasn't had the explosion and outside he just doesn't have a reliable enough jumper.

    The knock on JO has been that the team doesn't win more with him, but that doesn't mean they win more without him.



    I will concede that if a true inside source can be quoted as hearing JO explicitly say "I need more touches, this team is about me" then I am wrong. Until then it's just a JO rant that might in fact have been 100% justified and 100% with the TEAM'S best interest in hand.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 06-11-2008, 09:45 AM.

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    • #32
      Re: Four Big Questions Surround JO's Future w/Pacers

      Originally posted by D-BONE View Post
      Yes. We were reportedly seeking both. If true, that was ludicrous. We should have taken Odom when we had the chance. I'm sure they'd have laughed in our face for simply JO for Bynum straight up.
      Opinion around the league was that LA would probably cave. Regardless, I really think Donnie would have been content with just Bynum, not Odom. That was his target all along.
      This space for rent.

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      • #33
        Re: Four Big Questions Surround JO's Future w/Pacers

        Originally posted by Tom White View Post
        The Pacers have already invested years in waiting for him to get healthy. How much longer do you want to wait?
        Are you suggesting that because a player battles injuries for a stretch that it's impossible for them to stay healthy? Remember Ilgauskas early in his career? He has now had 5-6 relatively injury free seasons in a row. As for your question, one more year.



        [/QUOTE]Okay, now which is it? Are we hoping he gets healthy in orderr to play him, or to trade him?[/QUOTE]

        Does it matter? How about either/or. If we play him and he plays well, doesn't that make it a lot easier to trade him?

        [/QUOTE]Here is the part that confuses me when people talk about potential trades getting better. What team, that would be just one piece away from contending, is going to gut their team by putting together enough contracts of QUALITY players that the Pacers would be interested in, in order to get O'Neal?[/QUOTE]

        Remember, they would be getting him to make a title run, so they won't want to give up core players, but the salaries have to match. Also remember that the Pacers (like any team) can only have so many players on their roster.

        First off, they don't all have to be quality players. Secondly, they don't have to be necessarily contenders. But didn't you see this last year with Dallas and NJ? Kidd made nearly as much as O'neal will next year, last year. And the Nets flat out stole Devin Harris, some cap relief and 2 first round picks for a 37 year old washed up Jason Kidd. Another example is the year Detroit won thier first title. They traded for Rasheed Wallace who was atleast one of the top 3 paid players in the league at that time. And they obviously didn't gut thier teams.

        [?QUOTE]So, how does that work? Got any examples of teams that can put together salaries/players to match that would not tear apart what they are trying to build. (Remember, as well, the Pacers have to be interested in the players)[/QUOTE]

        It's impossible to foresee the next 18 months, but deals like that happen quite often. The Lakers nabbed Gasol from the Grizzlies for barely anything. The Pistons got Wallace. The Mavericks traded for Kidd. The Nuggets traded for Iverson. Miami got Caron Butler and Lamar Odom for Shaq. Pheonix traded for Shaq also. Most of those deals were deadline deals done in midseason by teams looking to make the jump. And most of the deals look better from the teams that give up the high priced players, sans Gasol and Wallace.

        Not every team is trying to build something, some have already built something and are looking for the finishing touch. If JO stays healthy next year and plays well, he could be viewed as a smiliar "final piece" type player.
        "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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