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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

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It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

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  • #1

    Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

    Ok, now that I have made an effort to win the "understatement of the year" award I now present you the bunny with his article on the fans or lacktherof.

    Also I do want to point out again one other thing, whenever he needs a quote or to talk about the franchise notice which of the two he always seems to get? Does he just not like Bird or is he still so mesmerized Walsh that he can't get past it.

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../1088/SPORTS04

    Playing in what they call "the heart of basketball country," the Indiana Pacers aren't feeling much love from their fans this season.
    A losing record and a stream of negative off-court news have created gaping green holes at Conseco Fieldhouse, where empty seats sometimes outnumber fans.
    The team's average attendance of 12,183 ranks last in the NBA and represents its worst norm since the 1990-91 season. Those figures include unused tickets. Actual attendance sometimes fails to reach 10,000, and has dipped below 8,000.
    Concern over the issue goes to the very top of the Pacers organization. Co-owner Herb Simon calls the attendance figures "a shock" and vows to take steps to win back fans.
    Their attendance, which peaked when every game was sold out in the Fieldhouse's inaugural season of 1999-2000, has declined in six of the past eight years. This season it has dropped by more than 3,000 from last season's average of 15,359. That's the largest single-season slide since 1983.
    That likely will translate to another financial loss for owners Herb and Mel Simon.
    According to Team Marketing Report, the Pacers' average ticket price this season is $42.39, below the NBA average of $48.83. Multiplied by the 3,000 fewer fans who are attending games this season over 41 home games and that amounts to an additional loss of about $5.2 million. A coinciding drop in revenue from parking, concessions and souvenir sales will add to the total.
    According to Forbes Magazine, the Pacers lost $12.5 million during the 2005-06 season and $1.3 million last year, with the difference reflecting the lower player payroll.
    Herb Simon said those figures are "probably not" accurate but acknowledged more red ink is on the way.
    Reversing recent trends has to start with winning. The attendance fortunes have generally followed the team's won-loss record and reflected the buzz -- positive or negative -- from the previous season.
    Their record has declined annually since they won a franchise-record 61 games in 2003-04, and could do so again this season if they don't match last year's win total of 35.
    The drumbeat of publicity hits from all the off-court issues dating to the brawl in November of 2004 has only further deepened fan discontent.
    "We're in a smaller market and when we're not winning, our attendance comes down," CEO Donnie Walsh said. "I think it's a combination of some of the incidents that we've had and the fact we're not a very good team right now, which is another story. The fact that anybody would stay home because of some of the things any of our (players) have done is not a good statement for us and we have to correct that."
    According to an unscientific online poll conducted by The Star after the most recent incident involving Shawne Williams, 71 percent of 16,000 respondents said they would not accept free tickets to a Pacers game.
    Renny Harrison, owner of ticket broker Circle City Tickets, said his business has taken a financial hit on Pacers tickets.
    He estimated he is doing "20 or 25 percent" of the business he received in the 2003-04 season and expects to lose money on the team this season. His company is offering tickets at less than face value. A $125 seat, for example, can be purchased for $50.
    "I would have never imagined when things were so good for us the year Conseco Fieldhouse opened that it would be like this," Harrison said.
    "All of it's very fragile. You're an injury or an incident away from things going bad."
    Cookie English, a season ticket holder with her husband since the franchise began play in 1967, has remained steadfast in her support.
    "I don't go there to look at (the players') personal lives," English said. "I want to be entertained. If you want to find an excuse not to go, you can do it. But to say they don't put forth effort and the games aren't entertaining, it's not true. It makes me sad. I'm fearful that since their attendance is down they'll want to move this team out of here."
    The Pacers are taking steps to try to win back fans. They have stepped up game promotions, met with more groups in the community, invited season ticket holders to visit with team president Larry Bird at his summer residence in Brown County and invited season ticket holders to watch games with Walsh from his suite. Walsh also has made it a point to answer every e-mail from fans.
    "We want to assure people as far as the franchise itself, we're pretty much the same people who were involved when we were considered a model franchise," he said. "When you hit bad times, you have to prove yourself.
    "Our staff is doing everything it can. We've tried everything and will continue to try everything, but if the team isn't winning games (it's difficult)."
    Top 3
    Rk. Team Attendance
    1. Detroit 22,076
    2. Chicago 21,978
    3. Cleveland 20,258

    Bottom 3
    Rk. Team Attendance
    28. Phila. 13,263
    29. Memphis 12,985
    30. PACERS 12,183


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

    Originally posted by Peck View Post
    Cookie English, a season ticket holder with her husband since the franchise began play in 1967, has remained steadfast in her support.
    "I don't go there to look at (the players') personal lives," English said. "I want to be entertained. If you want to find an excuse not to go, you can do it. But to say they don't put forth effort and the games aren't entertaining, it's not true. It makes me sad. I'm fearful that since their attendance is down they'll want to move this team out of here."
    What's her PD handle? After all, we know that only members of PD think the team is anything but a bunch of thugs.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

      Walsh is much more media friendly than is Bird.

      The column lost any credibility it might have had when he quoted internet voting.
      Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-11-2008, 06:56 AM.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

        Here is the link to the Fan Cost Index referenced in the article

        http://teammarketing.com.ismmedia.co...0NBA%20FCI.pdf


        It shows that the cost of going to a Pacers game is lower than the NBA average, but not the cheapest.

        There is evidently very little difference in the cost of parking, or of food and drink, programs, etc. in any of the NBA venues. The difference is all in the price of tickets. And even there, every team in the NBA offers $9 or $10 tickets.
        And I won't be here to see the day
        It all dries up and blows away
        I'd hang around just to see
        But they never had much use for me
        In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

          I keep heearing them say things like "We need to correct that."

          Ok.

          Do it.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

            Originally posted by Twes View Post
            I keep heearing them say things like "We need to correct that."

            Ok.

            Do it.
            I see you've only been back a short time.

            And there was a reason, I'm sure, you left.
            "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

              ADDITIONAL HEADS UP

              Yesterday on the Eddie and Kravitz program (1070 AM) they mentioned a Bill Benner piece in the Indianapolis Business Journal regarding the Pacers. They mentioned that Benner made it sound like the fans owe it to the Pacers to attend. They did not discuss it then as they had little time...but said they were going to discuss this in length today.

              Just lettin' ya know.
              Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

                Originally posted by indygeezer (quoting what Kravitz and Eddie said about Bill Benner's article in the IBJ) View Post
                Benner made it sound like the fans owe it to the Pacers to attend.

                Last edited by Putnam; 03-11-2008, 09:02 AM.
                And I won't be here to see the day
                It all dries up and blows away
                I'd hang around just to see
                But they never had much use for me
                In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

                  Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
                  I see you've only been back a short time.

                  And there was a reason, I'm sure, you left.

                  Meaning I should leave again?

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

                    Originally posted by Twes View Post
                    Meaning I should leave again?

                    You do and I shall track you down and put a Muzzy 4-blade thru yer adams apple
                    Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

                      Originally posted by indygeezer View Post
                      ADDITIONAL HEADS UP

                      Yesterday on the Eddie and Kravitz program (1070 AM) they mentioned a Bill Benner piece in the Indianapolis Business Journal regarding the Pacers. They mentioned that Benner made it sound like the fans owe it to the Pacers to attend. They did not discuss it then as they had little time...but said they were going to discuss this in length today.

                      Just lettin' ya know.
                      You mean the same Bill Benner who is the brother of Pacers P.R. person David Benner?


                      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

                        Originally posted by Peck View Post
                        You mean the same Bill Benner who is the brother of Pacers P.R. person David Benner?

                        You don't suppose there was a little nepotism involved do ya ????
                        Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

                          Franchises will always say things like “it’s all about the fan or we owe it to our fans” but I find it pretty hard to believe they don’t take the average fans completely for granted.

                          It’s all about the revenue. It’s all about filling corporate suites with corporate dollars.

                          The type of fans that make up this forum are the backbone of an team like the Pacers. People that grew up going to games with their Dad or older brother and who then raise their families in that arena, shelling out literally thousands of dollars per year.

                          What would the percentage of season ticket and playoff ticket money to the average fan translate to for the average player salary.

                          Have we lost our minds as a society that some twenty year old kid needs to be paid $100 million dollars.

                          And to look at what’s gone on here and to think it falls anywhere but squarely on the organization is just crazy to me.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

                            Originally posted by indygeezer View Post
                            ADDITIONAL HEADS UP

                            Yesterday on the Eddie and Kravitz program (1070 AM) they mentioned a Bill Benner piece in the Indianapolis Business Journal regarding the Pacers. They mentioned that Benner made it sound like the fans owe it to the Pacers to attend. They did not discuss it then as they had little time...but said they were going to discuss this in length today.

                            Just lettin' ya know.
                            First of all - the next time I read something worthwhile in the IBJ will be the first time.

                            Secondly - Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Benner the one who wrote about JO's daughter telling another kid that JO and family were moving to California last summer?

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Seems that there might be an attendance issue...

                              Also I do want to point out again one other thing, whenever he needs a quote or to talk about the franchise notice which of the two he always seems to get? Does he just not like Bird or is he still so mesmerized Walsh that he can't get past it.
                              Chip much?

                              Option 3 - he knows which source is reliable?

                              Seems that there might be an attendance issue...
                              Wait, what!?!? What have you heard? Have I missed something?


                              Everyday is Halloween when fans come dressed up like seats.

                              You mean the same Bill Benner who is the brother of Pacers P.R. person David Benner?
                              Holy crap, how deep does this rabbit hole go? Say it ain't so Joe.

                              (ps - the fans that boo'd Jack and said we won't go till he's gone do need to start showing up, they made good on their end after all)
                              (pss - this is why you don't make deals with fans)
                              (psss- in other words, build the team most capable of winning games without imploding...scandals, brawls or nothing)
                              Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 03-11-2008, 11:35 AM.

                              Comment

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