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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Building a championship team by defining specific roles, with San Antonio as our model

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  • #16
    Re: Building a championship team by defining specific roles, with San Antonio as our model

    Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
    I like Travis Deiner and his "intangibles", I just don't like his TANGIBLE ability.
    I'm grabbing that for my sig!
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

    Comment

    • #17
      Re: Building a championship team by defining specific roles, with San Antonio as our model

      Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
      Ok, so the conclusions I'm trying to make with this long article are as follows:

      1. We need players who compliment each other, instead of duplicate their teammates skills, in both the backcourt and frontcourt.

      2. Trading for a scoring wing player isnt the most efficient use of our resources, and won't help us wing long term. (Vince Carter, I mean you)

      3. We need a different type of player than Dunleavy is to play along Granger and use him in the most efficient way which in my view is as a scorer and number one option. We need an elite perimeter defender in the worst way, like the Spurs do with their combination of Ginobili and Bowen.

      4. We have assets to trade that other teams could use that aren't named JO or Tinsley, and we need to think that way sooner rather than later. Dunleavy, Daniels, Murphy (if by some miracle possible), Foster, and Ike should all be moved in the right circumstance.

      5. We need to start acquiring picks in bulk when we trade these assets, to help set up future moves.

      1) Yes, the Pacers have too many of the same type of players (this is a very old and exasperating issue who's worst moment came, IMO, in the trade for a redundant Harrington, as was pointed out by many posters at the time). It seems like its always been the case (during the JO era anyway) that the Pacers have too much bench and too few starters. There is always someone who can come in and give you pretty much the same as the guy who starts in front of him because the guy who starts in front of him shouldn't really be a starter. It's very much like McDyess is right now for the Pistons. There is nothing really wrong with Dyess, he just doesn't bring anything that isn't already brought be other starters already and so he shouldn't be the starting PF.

      2) I read your reasoning and I understand it but I think its basically just choice rather than necessity. With Granger being able to play defensively and offensively its just a matter of who you want to pair with him on the wing (as you've said). As you said, defense is cheaper (contract wise) than offense so it makes sense (and UB happy) to get a defender and use Granger as your primary offensive wing but there are a LOT more offensive wings out there and so an offensive wing might be more available and if so I say you go for it and turn Granger towards a more defensive role who provides very solid secondary wing offense.

      3, 4, and 5) Here's the thing about these three. This is exactly what the outcry was when the Pacers made the Warrior trade (and even the trade to get Harrington again). No Dunleavy isn't a good fit next to Granger because Dunleavy's best position is as a really solid guy off the bench (as was said before the trade for him). Two of the first three you mention as assets (Dun and Murphy) aren't really assets as they have hugely bloated contracts which is why they were up to be traded by the Warriors in the first place and why there was such an outcry against the trade for them as well. Daniels contract isn't as bad but he makes more than Tinsley, provides less, and Tinsley's contract is seen as unmanageable for what he brings. Foster and Ike are tradeable assets that should be used, I agree. Foster I can see as usable towards your desire for picks but Ike seems more likely to be used to get one of the afore mentioned terrible contracts off your books (which is exactly how the Warriors used him).

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      • #18
        Re: Building a championship team by defining specific roles, with San Antonio as our model

        Since the roster has been set for the rest of the season......I thought that I would revisit this topic.

        TBird....to simplify things ( and correct me if I am wrong ); it seems that you're suggesting that we pair up your scoring Wing and Post player with a corresponding defensive minded Wing and Post player while having a Backup Defensive minded PG that can come in to pressure the opposing team.

        As you suggest:

        For the PG, whether we keep Tinsley or continue to use Diener.......we just need to have a defensive minded PG back him up.

        For the Wing position, assuming that Rush is the "defensive minded scoring Wing Player" and Dunleavy as the "offensive minded Scoring Wing Player" ( both as the Backup Wing Players ).....we would just need a very solid defensive SG to pair with Granger.

        For the Post position, assuming that Foster is the "defensive minded Post Player" and Murphy is the "offensive minded Scoring Post Player" ( both as the Backup Post Players ).....we would just need a very solid defensive Big Man ( preferably a Center ) to pair with JONeal.

        Given the unliklihood that we will make any major moves anytime soon, looking at next season's roster.....it could be argued that we already have the "offensive" part of the equation solved.....it just comes down to a matter of adding the "defensive" players to the equation. The 2008-2009 rotation could likely look like this:

        PG - Tinsley / DEF_PG2 / Diener
        SG - DEF_SG1 / Rush
        SF - Granger / Dunleavy / Shawne
        PF - JONeal / Murphy
        C - DEF_C1 / Foster

        While figuring out a way to resign Rush....that would leave Marquis, Tinsley and Ike as the only players under contract that we can use in a trade to acquire the type of players that we need. I think that Marquis and Ike can probably fetch the type of trade that we need to directly or indirectly acquire the type of players that we need. I think that with some savvy Trades and draft picks....TPTB can probably get the type of players that you suggest to balence out this roster.

        The question would then become who can we pick up?

        Ross and Diop come to mind in FA while Thabeet would be someone to draft...assuming that we have the 8th to 10th pick in the draft.
        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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        • #19
          Re: Building a championship team by defining specific roles, with San Antonio as our model

          YOu lost me when you said keep Tinsley.

          Comment

          • #20
            Re: Building a championship team by defining specific roles, with San Antonio as our model

            Originally posted by Elgin56 View Post
            YOu lost me when you said keep Tinsley.
            If I believed that we could move him....I would agree with you. I'm mainly talking from a "worst case scenario" where we don't move him....which is near impossible.

            I'm hoping that we can package him with Diogu in the offseason.

            The main thing is that I agree with TBird and many others who has said that we need to pair Tinsley or Diener with a defensive minded PG to help pressure the opposing PGs.
            Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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            • #21
              Re: Building a championship team by defining specific roles, with San Antonio as our model

              Great post. Good insights.

              However, I can't see Danny ever reaching the level of a Paul Pierce. Not even close, really.

              Based on your theories, I would make Granger the Defensive guy and find our Pierce. Also, our perimeter defense is hindered primarily by the weak PG effort, not as much by the wings.

              I could also see Shawne becoming our elite offensive player. If he developed that way, and Danny focused on defense, Dun could sub for both of them.

              Then go get a damn point guard.
              "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

              Comment

              • #22
                Re: Building a championship team by defining specific roles, with San Antonio as our model

                I would much rather find a strong perimeter defender at the SG, PG and Center and have Granger, Diener ( or Tinsley ) and JONeal stick to what they seem to do best....score.

                Since it's unlikely that we would be able to sign some top tier FA.....I agree with TBird in that the next best ( and cheapest ) thing to do is to find some solid defensive players to pair up with our existing lineup.

                If anything....we need quicker and smarter defensive players given how bad our defense is right now. Scoring isn't where we need to find help....significantly improving our defense would help alot.

                To me....now that we have figured out the offensive part of JO'Bs system......the main objective of this offseason should be to acquire defensive players that can effectively implement Harter's defense.
                Last edited by CableKC; 02-23-2008, 01:01 AM.
                Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                Comment

                • #23
                  Re: Building a championship team by defining specific roles, with San Antonio as our model

                  Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
                  Great post. Good insights.

                  However, I can't see Danny ever reaching the level of a Paul Pierce. Not even close, really.
                  Yep, a lot of people either don't realize or forget how good Paul Pierce has been throughout his career. He's got a career average of 23.6 pts, 6.4 rebs and almost 4 assists. He's a 6 time all-star.

                  This guy is going to end his career Top 10 all time in getting to the FT line. He's taken a pounding year in and year out and hasn't missed that many games. He's really been a rock, a model of consistency, and he's done it year after year when everyone's had the scouting report on him.

                  I like Granger, but he's got a ways to go if he wants to be anything like Pierce. And he'd better get started soon because Pierce was already making all-star teams at the age Granger currently is.

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