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BillS
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard... -
I think this is a good example of showing that it's ok to be generally on one side of an argument and still be allowed to point out the excesses of your own side.
My point above was simply pointing out that the Pacers had the 5th spot and then dropped down to 7th due to mismanagement at the end of the season is not true. They had a chance to tie for the 5th spot, and honestly that likely wouldn't have happened even if they had benched those two completely because bad teams just win games occasionally (as was true of the game Portland won at the end of the season).
However, I was generally on team tank this season. I wish the Westbrook trade would have happened, that would have been a home run for where the Pacers were. I am less certain of other trades because if it was good salary coming back how impactful would that really have been for the tank, and if it was bad salary coming back how much does that affect future seasons. I generally was on board with trading those two in order to get worse, but I wasn't ready to do it at all costs.
I also don't think the Pacers could have gotten into the bottom 3 just trading the veterans.
But I 100% was on board with the thought that the team needed to get as high as possible this season because there weren't going to be many chances going forward to add an impact talent, so they needed to do it while they could.Comment
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Looking forward for homers and anti tankers to tell us in ten years that San Antonio didnโt tank and that tanking doesnโt work.@WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!
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Rigged works or SA is just beyond incredibly lucky. Pacers have never been lucky. Of course someone will say the more I tank(lose) the luckier I get.
I would rather just be lucky. Complete unknown.{o,o}
|)__)
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When I read some of these comments, I wonder how it's enjoyable to be a fan of a sports team. The amount of gross exaggerations are also exhausting. I'm not sure I'd consider myself to be a homer, and I certainly wanted a higher draft pick, particularly in this draft. I think the need for more talent is very evident, particularly as Hali went out and we went on our spectacular losing streak. As I said before, it really showed me that we are depending far too much on him individually, and we have no business contending for the playoffs. That would be a fruitless endeavor.
However, I also balance that, knowing that our starting PF was 6'5, and we were essentially playing without a max contract when the Suns matched Deandre's contract and we subsequently did nothing. Our roster was very broken, but we still have talent. I'd say I encourage games playing out in their natural course, and to allow our players to grow and congeal with another. I don't want to develop a losing mentality, and to essentially tell our players, you are going to fail, failing is a good thing, and will not be successful with the addition of a 19-year-old player.
Because of that, I'm content with how the draft happened. I wish we had a top 4 pick, but I'm absolutely not devastated. Would it be nice to get pick 5 or 6? Sure. But there isn't a player guaranteed to be taken at 5 or 6 who might not be available at 7. As an aside, I'll happily admit that I was one of the posters last summer who was devastated that we didn't get Jaden Ivey, and I was equally as mad that we didn't trade up for Tyty Washington. I was very happy to be wrong on both counts, at least so far.
This past season was frustrating for a number of reasons, but I just don't understand why the negativity is continuing as such, especially since we did end up where we were supposed to.Peck is basically omniscient when it comes to understanding how the minds of Herb Simon and Kevin Pritchard work. I was a fool to ever question him and now feel deep shame for not understanding that this team believes in continuity above talent.Comment
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Are people supposed to be positive about a decade without a playoff series win? What is there to be positive about? The Pacers have become a completely irrelevant franchise, are people supposed to be pumped about that? Woohoo we're number 25? Not sure what emotion I'm supposed to have here, help me out.Comment
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Honestly if a decade of bad moves and failure doesn't upset you, I don't think you're a fan. I think you're a stooge.Comment
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Seeing players on the floor playing hard and having some success gives me joy. Having good players taken off the court completely and then hearing so-called fans despair about how horrible they must be (or how fatally injury-prone) does not.
Tell the truth, if we had traded all the vets and the combination of Hali & Benn ended up winning only a couple of dozen games wouldn't people be complaining that we whiffed in the trade and draft and were still a decade or more from contending?
At some point young players need to also be shown they can play hard and win.
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
BillS
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...Comment
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I don't think you can just take one end result and have blanket grumpiness. Were you happy when we didn't resign Oladipo? Were you happy when Sabonis played well? Were you particularly mad when we drafted TJ Leaf? Were you particularly mad when we gave Myles a front heavy contract this season? If those things don't move the needle for you, then I guess you should ultimately always be grumpy because at the end, we're all going to die. I say that facetiously, but that's essentially the argument you're making, and again, why be a fan at all then.Peck is basically omniscient when it comes to understanding how the minds of Herb Simon and Kevin Pritchard work. I was a fool to ever question him and now feel deep shame for not understanding that this team believes in continuity above talent.Comment
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There is no binary response on this particular topic where one is wrong and the other side is right.Originally posted by Dece
One can be upset about the sheer ineptitude and failures of the FO while choosing to recognize that it is important to create a Team culture for younger Players that encourages them to play hard and try to win games. I ( and others here ) think that it is important to not create a culture of losing. Stuff like this negatively impacts not only the Players but also the fanbase over the long term.
Of course, the talent level may not carry the Team to win games no matter how hard they try. But there is a difference between intentionally losing games and trying to win games but recognizing that isn't winnable simply because the opposing team is better.Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.Comment
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That's not at all the argument I'm making. The argument I'm making is that if you are happy when the team makes bad moves, or fails to make good ones by doing nothing, than you are a mark. You might as well just come out and say, "please daddy billionaire please let me give you my time energy and money, I want nothing in return from you, please just take it!"
I was mad when they drafted Leaf. I was mad when they drafted Psycho-T. I was mad when they drafted Duarte. I was mad when they traded for George Hill. I was mad when they gave up a draft pick for the honor of signing Brogdon. I was mad when the Pacers traded a first round pick for Thad Young. I was mad and I have consistently been mad at the team for 15 years or so, because they have consistently made bad moves. The evidence is in the product, it's been a bad team for a decade. What you're suggesting, though, is that the team is only capable of making bad moves, that it is impossible for them to make good moves. That isn't true. They could start making good moves tomorrow, I just don't believe they will.
Someday, at least, ownership will have to change hands. That's really the best hope, aside from just getting dumb lucky and winning the draft lottery from the 10 spot, or drafting (another) Paul George at 10. I am tired, though, of having to wait for dumb luck because management is incompetent.Comment
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No matter what happens, someone will complain. That much is true. If your standard is, "I want no one to complain," I think your best bet is to stop using the internet. I can't speak for "people" though, I only speak for myself. If the Pacers had gone out there and won 20 games, I would not be complaining.
I mean this completely sincerely, are you sure the NBA is the right product for you Bill? If all you care about is playing hard success or not, is not the college game the right game for you? You can't tank in college. There's no draft. All you can do is put the best squad you can out, every night. The options for longer term strategy are extremely more limited in that environment. I really feel like that product is the one you are looking for. The immediate, only tonight matters, just win tonight baby fans -- that's college. NBA involves longer term strategy, and losing is part of the correct overall long term strategy sometimes.Comment
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Rule #6And I would put the pasted article in quotes like this.
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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
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Rule #10
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