Myles Turner has rebuffed Indiana's contract extension offers, per @TheSteinLine

[Granville Fleming]

The 2nd sentence is on-point...with an addendum...he would like a near max deal.... somewhere else...whether it be texas, LA, big market etc...

but the first sentence i disagree with in part...the part being that if they didnt want him here they wouldve moved him...THEYVE BEEN TRYING TO MOVE HIM...deslerately....but hes been pretty much trash, missing tons of games...so any offer they might have managed to get was a complete waste...garbage for garbage...so they just kept pushing it down the road until Carlisle came on board and came up with an all-out plan to try and crank up his trade value to the max to hopefully get something in return thats not total garbage...hes been talking him up and keeps playing him regardless...and Myles is motivated to get the hell out of here and get paid...its a contract year....and he wants out...so hes played as good as hes capable at times....now we just all wait and see if its all been enough to get him the hell out of here...

as for the extension banter....leverage and posturing...mostly posturing to the other teams trying to gain some leverage with this threat of "we want to keep him" ....after 7 years of trash he suddenly morphed into this wonderful player...yea right



They'll get something for him...first you have the Goebert deal...second you have Myles playing the best hes ever played...and theres always someone desperate enough and dumb enough...prior to now it didnt matter because myles sucked so his contract was a negative...now your not locked in if it doesnt go well-which it might because myles wants and needs a new deal...i just truly feel sorry for whoever that sucker is....and as long as its not the pacers-which im completely confident it wont be-then good riddens and good luck...and watch what happens in the years following...back to lazy *** no effort never playing same ole same ole..

but the offers will be a bit better now and they will ultimately take the one they feel is best....and then we will hear about all the offers that came in and how we had our pick of the litter



and if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle...

its been 7 plus years....we know exactly what Myles is...more importantly Herb Simon knows what he is and he stole 80 million dollars of Herbs money...

i mean theres never been a better example of a contract year performance than this one....

i mean cmon...how can it be any more obvious...

are we getting contract year effort only to have it fall off once it gets signed? you already know the answer to this....Hell yes...god help any team if they sign him to a big deal...we can sit back and laugh til kingdome come

Myles doesnt get credit for going to the basket instead of pick and pop....the coaches get credit for that...

like i said, Carlisle and co. get credit for doing a helluva job and not leaving any stone unturned in their attempt to raise his trade value and get him out of here...

and ultimately its hilarious how this is all being played out in public for obvious reasons...

first we receive "news" that negotiations have opened up...

then we get Hali saying Myles is having fun playing basketball again..

then we get the pacers will trade Myles if he hasnt signed by the trade deadline

then we get Myles "rebuffed" the offers....not just rejected...but rebuffed...thats a mean and nasty rejection....lol

in the end most of these things ultimately help raise his trade value....

and when u combine that with his sporadic good play....well...it wont be long...but i could see it going down to the wire to try and get the best possible deal...

lets just hope he doesnt get hurt in that time....but even if he does hes far more likely to play through it since he needs to impress for his new deal....otherwise if it were any other time, his lazy *** would be on the bench

My opening statement, "Everything that guy just said was ********...Thank you"

[Granville Fleming]

regardless of what we pay myles, surely everyone sees what Hali is doing for him right? i mean sabonis not being here definitely helps his usage but Hali is serving him about 12-14 points a game on a silver platter every night.

Yes, I don't think anyone is debating that Haliburton is a much better point guard than Brogdon...

[Granville Fleming]

Jalen/Jackson can cover whatever production you get for him and way cheaper.

Spend the money on another star to pair with Hali not a role player.

This x1000, the Center position is the least important position on the court...I think it's ridiculous though that he is called Softner and he is called trash, but I suppose this forum would be a lot less lively if you and Cinnamon Toast weren't leading the anti-Turner brigade...just my humble opinion of course....

[CJ Jones]

I think it's ok to say that Haliburton is exactly who Turner needs to get the best out of him, and yet also say that Turner has strengths that pair well with Haliburton. Do I believe that it's more Haliburton than Turner? Yes. Do I believe that lots of other players could do 80-90 percent of what Turner does? Yes, but sometimes squeezing that last 10% out is valuable.

For example, Turner and Smith this year. Turner has played 89% of his minutes with Haliburton this year. But Smith isn't crazy far behind in that statistic. He's played 74.3% of his minutes with Haliburton.

But when it comes to shot efficiency going into tonight, they aren't even close. Turner was 12th in the NBA going into tonight. Jalen was 140th.

Do I think Jalen could be more efficient playing more with Haliburton? Yes. But I don't think Jalen could be as efficient as Turner is even if he got to play with Haliburton more.

These guys have played entirely different roles while on the floor with Hali. I feel confident you put Jalen in Myles's position and his efficiency will soar. Granted, he probably wouldn't be as efficient as Myles yet.

[MyFavMartin]

In my opinion, it is all about going from Brogdon to Haliburton.

He showed potential when Sabonis was out with injury and I don’t doubt Hali is helping with his skilled passing. Interestingly, Myles 3PT shooting % has increased but he’s shooting less from outside (1 less per game). More FTs too.

i also think Hali has helped set the tone for the team of unselfishness and sharing the ball, quick passes vs Brogdon pounding the air out of the ball while he figures out what to do/tries to feed the post.

[MyFavMartin]

regardless of what we pay myles, surely everyone sees what Hali is doing for him right? i mean sabonis not being here definitely helps his usage but Hali is serving him about 12-14 points a game on a silver platter every night.

Umm, no. Respectfully:

Myles’ scoring average has only increased from 12.9 to 16.7 PPG. His FG% is slightly better but still roughly the same (51% v 55%).

Myles is used to spread the floor and initiate action at the top of the key with PnR. They’re not typically looking for Myles on the roll or to get him the ball on the low block unless it’s an obvious size mismatch… even then they fail. They occasionally pass to him on the Pick n Pop but they don’t typically run that action add are looking for the open wing player created by the rotating defender collapsing on Myles and Hali and doubling to address the mismatch that the PnR creates/close driving lane.

The team is sharing the ball more which is creating more open shots. Hali leads the team to this philosophy but Myles is only taking 1.5 more shots per game this season compared to seasons past (10.9 v. 9.4). Fewer 3PT shots per game (3.8 v 4.4) but higher accuracy (38% v. 33%). Same number of made 3PT: 1.5 v 1.4. Remember how slow our offense was last year and commonly whoever has the ball would pass at the last second as shot clock was winding down only to settle for a rushed and contested shot from distance?

Yes, Myles is getting more FTs (4.2 v 2.5), but this idea that Hali generates 12-16 shots for Myles implies Turner does not have talent or the ability to score before Tyrese showed up, which just is not supported by the evidence.

Myles fits what we’re trying to do and the style of play. I’m sure some teams who also play this way, would find him of interest if they don’t already have a center who can shoot from outside but there’s not many that can or do.

I imagine San Antonio could be a trade destination or Toronto. He fits the Warriors system but not sure if they would want to pay with some of their young talent. Houston might be spring on Sengun and could be interested as well but he doesn’t fit their timeline. Minny and Lakers would love him for the right price.

love the culture and speed of play that Tyrese brings but don’t discount RC and Nembhard bring as well as the subtraction of Brogdon.

I do wish Benn would catch the fever and pass to the open man more… sometimes he’s just set on driving the lane and doesn’t look or make the pass to the open man

[MyFavMartin]

Hali is like Nash, remember all those trash players Nash got a contract to? Phoenix would bring a guy from the streets and he will average 20/10 with Nash lol

Hali makes average player look good and is not just Softner but everybody else really.

Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire were not bums off the street. Neither was Joe Johnson.

but Q might have been

[MyFavMartin]

Tyrese isn’t the only good PG in the league and MT does have self-established value. On par somewhere near Capela, Collins, Vucevic and Draymond

is he with Porzingis $? Def not Embiid or Jokic

[MyFavMartin]

Jalen/Jackson can cover whatever production you get for him and way cheaper.

Spend the money on another star to pair with Hali not a role player.

Maybe… eventually…

why wait?

bird in hand….

gift horse…

33M decreasing

[MyFavMartin]

True. Myles is a good finisher inside and a good shooter on the perimeter. He can finish from a wide range of angles and can help you space the floor while being good enough to attack bad closeouts. He is also herky-jerky in his movement enough to draw fouls while going to the rim. He has pretty good touch around the rim too.

I agree with you that squeezing that last 10% is valuable. The question is whether it's valuable enough to justify retaining him at the salary that he's likely to command. Personally, I can listen to arguments from both sides on this topic.

From a team direction standpoint, though, I'd still prefer us to trade him for draft compensation + young players.

I like what you are saying in that MT has value but I like what the team has going and would prefer to extend him

[Nuntius]

He showed potential when Sabonis was out with injury and I don’t doubt Hali is helping with his skilled passing. Interestingly, Myles 3PT shooting % has increased but he’s shooting less from outside (1 less per game). More FTs too.

The 3-point shooting thing makes sense. Myles is a rare example of a shooter that is more comfortable shooting from the top of the key and the elbows than he is shooting from the corner. When Domas was here, Myles shot from the corner a lot more often because this is the position where he should be in order to space the floor when we were running a PnR with Domas up top. But now that we're running our PnRs with him instead, he is in much more central position than he used to be so he takes 3s that he's more comfortable with.

i also think Hali has helped set the tone for the team of unselfishness and sharing the ball, quick passes vs Brogdon pounding the air out of the ball while he figures out what to do/tries to feed the post.

Very true.

[Downtown Bang!]

Turner was on a positive trend as an offensive 5-man through the 2018-19 season. Coincidently that was the last year he and Sabonis essentially split minutes and were only actually on the floor together about 7 minutes a game. Turner played 21+ minutes a game as a 5 that year. In the years that followed they shared the floor from 18-23 minutes a game which had Myles playing out of position for 2/3 to 3/4 of his minutes.

Not going to re-litigate the Turbonis years because Sabonis was/is the better player and Myles was going to either defer with minutes or by playing out of position. Having said that the idea that Turner might actually produce better playing his natural position shouldn't be as big surprise as many here make it out to be. Sure Haliburton helps because unlike Collison & Brogdon he can actually hit a roll man in the right place at the right time and he also knows where to get Turner the ball behind the arc.

As others have also pointed out Turner has improved quite a bit as a finisher in the 3 years previous to this season. Not a huge sample size as his 2- point opportunities were down by about a 1/3 from 2018-19 but the statistical improvement was clear.

[Nuntius]

Umm, no. Respectfully:

Myles’ scoring average has only increased from 12.9 to 16.7 PPG. His FG% is slightly better but still roughly the same (51% v 55%).

Myles is used to spread the floor and initiate action at the top of the key with PnR. They’re not typically looking for Myles on the roll or to get him the ball on the low block unless it’s an obvious size mismatch… even then they fail. They occasionally pass to him on the Pick n Pop but they don’t typically run that action add are looking for the open wing player created by the rotating defender collapsing on Myles and Hali and doubling to address the mismatch that the PnR creates/close driving lane.

The team is sharing the ball more which is creating more open shots. Hali leads the team to this philosophy but Myles is only taking 1.5 more shots per game this season compared to seasons past (10.9 v. 9.4). Fewer 3PT shots per game (3.8 v 4.4) but higher accuracy (38% v. 33%). Same number of made 3PT: 1.5 v 1.4. Remember how slow our offense was last year and commonly whoever has the ball would pass at the last second as shot clock was winding down only to settle for a rushed and contested shot from distance?

Yes, Myles is getting more FTs (4.2 v 2.5), but this idea that Hali generates 12-16 shots for Myles implies Turner does not have talent or the ability to score before Tyrese showed up, which just is not supported by the evidence.

Myles fits what we’re trying to do and the style of play. I’m sure some teams who also play this way, would find him of interest if they don’t already have a center who can shoot from outside but there’s not many that can or do.

I imagine San Antonio could be a trade destination or Toronto. He fits the Warriors system but not sure if they would want to pay with some of their young talent. Houston might be spring on Sengun and could be interested as well but he doesn’t fit their timeline. Minny and Lakers would love him for the right price.

love the culture and speed of play that Tyrese brings but don’t discount RC and Nembhard bring as well as the subtraction of Brogdon.

I do wish Benn would catch the fever and pass to the open man more… sometimes he’s just set on driving the lane and doesn’t look or make the pass to the open man

100% agreed on the impact that Nembhard has had this year. Based on Turner's shooting splits, Nembhard has the second most assists to him with 35 (the first is obviously Hali with 81) and a lot of those assists come from the action that you described in your post and I underlined.

We'll run a Hali/Myles PnR up top, Myles will slip the pick and dive to the rim, Hali will swing the ball to Nembhard on the wing and Nembhard will pass to Myles after he has established good interior position. It is an action that happens quite often overall and the connection here doesn't have to be Nembhard + Myles (it could be Buddy, Nesmith or Math on the wing and Jalen or Jackson in the middle) but Nembhard and Myles have a particularly good connection.

[owl]

Myles has made a lot of improvement on strength
and his touch around the basket is much better
What to do?
If he is dead set on taking his talents elsewhere then answer is obvious
If it is about money there has to be a limit as there other players who will need to get paid
Sign for 4 years and trade later when others have to be paid?

[vnzla81]

Myles has made a lot of improvement on strength
and his touch around the basket is much better
What to do?
If he is dead set on taking his talents elsewhere then answer is obvious
If it is about money there has to be a limit as there other players who will need to get paid
Sign for 4 years and trade later when others have to be paid?

That is another big issue I don’t think there is any doubt Hali is making all NBA and that means max contract, can the Pacers compete paying a max to Hali and near max to Softner (what he wants)? I think everyone here knows the answer to that.