JJ Redick is right about the Pacers

[SaintLouisan]

Within the past 20 years, there have been two separate periods (of a few years each) when the Pacers were legitimate contenders. How many franchises can truly say they've had even one season in that span when they were legitimate contenders? Even for some teams like the Hawks who've made a few conference finals, was anybody apart from some sabermetric-obsessed contrarian dorks at some outlet like the Ringer seriously saying that they had a genuine chance to take home the title? No. Even when they finished first in the conference, they got stomped by Lebron. The Pacers on the other hand took the eventual champions to seven -- that gives them a legitimate claim to having been the second best team in the league. They lasted longer against the Pistons than the Lakers did too.

That doesn't sound like the middle to me; if we're saying that the middle was the most common outcome over a long period of time, then for every franchise that isn't the Lakers, over a span of decades the results are inevitably going to average out to "the middle".

[Sollozzo]

Even then he's wrong. 3 Conference Finals in 20 years isn't all that bad... It's not great, but it's a lot more than several other teams. There are way worse positions. Now the last 3 years were mildly infuriating for me, until the Domas/Hali trade. That was the treadmill to BS he was talking about. The epitome of striving to be middle of the pack.

The problem though is that one of those ECF’s was in 2004. So if you’re literally using a 20 year benchmark, that one will fall off in a couple years.

Our 20 year success looked pretty good when it was framed in a 1994-2014 window. The problem is that the last 8 years have been extremely unimpressive and soon we will be at a full decade since our last playoff series win unless we turn things around quickly.

Sure we’ve had some nice successes in the past, but it’s the recent history (which at this point has become a relatively long stretch of time) that is so unimpressive right now.

[Downtown Bang!]

It is all hindsight at this point but the return from the PG trade should have been focused on maximizing future draft capitol and committing to a reset process similar to what is happening now. Individual moves could be argued but prior to that it is tough to quibble too much with the team building process going all the back to the 90's.

[Ichi]

The problem though is that one of those ECF’s was in 2004. So if you’re literally using a 20 year benchmark, that one will fall off in a couple years.

Our 20 year success looked pretty good when it was framed in a 1994-2014 window. The problem is that the last 8 years have been extremely unimpressive and soon we will be at a full decade since our last playoff series win unless we turn things around quickly.

Sure we’ve had some nice successes in the past, but it’s the recent history (which at this point has become a relatively long stretch of time) that is so unimpressive right now.

Sure, but that's the benchmark Redick offered. If he had said the Pacers of the last five-eight years, I'd have said sure.

[Ichi]

It is all hindsight at this point but the return from the PG trade should have been focused on maximizing future draft capitol and committing to a reset process similar to what is happening now. Individual moves could be argued but prior to that it is tough to quibble too much with the team building process going all the back to the 90's.

Trade got us Tyrese, so I'm all good on it. I think if you get future value from a secondary deal, it also kinda counts. It's like the reverse of that horrible Orlando Magic trade tree from the last decade or so. Bad deals at face value that get worse the more you look into it.

[yoadknux]

The problem though is that one of those ECF’s was in 2004. So if you’re literally using a 20 year benchmark, that one will fall off in a couple years.

Our 20 year success looked pretty good when it was framed in a 1994-2014 window. The problem is that the last 8 years have been extremely unimpressive and soon we will be at a full decade since our last playoff series win unless we turn things around quickly.

Sure we’ve had some nice successes in the past, but it’s the recent history (which at this point has become a relatively long stretch of time) that is so unimpressive right now.

This is exactly the point of an average... it is not a selective stat. It doesn't care if you had 5 really good years or 5 really bad years.
1994-2000 were our best years in the NBA with 5 ECF (and 1 finals). But 2014-2022 horrible, missed Playoffs twice, three sweeps, first round exits.
2012-2014 contenders, 2005-2011 garbage.
This trends repeats itself, garbage for a few years, then 1-2 ECF

As long as we remain a part of the 11 ringless club... we will always be seen as average. Bad seasons cancel out the good

[PacerDude]

As long as we remain a part of the 11 ringless club... we will always be seen as average. Bad seasons cancel out the good

And it's sad that this is all some people look at the franchise as. The Pacers are my team. They're not average.

[graphic-er]

Just to piggy back this thread,

JJ podcast- I think the Demar Derozan interview will be out tomorrow, and next week should be Bradly Beal or Victor Oladipo. Brace yourself for some for some more Trashing of the Pacers. Who knows maybe he will confirm a lot of the speculation around his falling out with the pacers.

[SaintLouisan]

Just to piggy back this thread,

JJ podcast- I think the Demar Derozan interview will be out tomorrow, and next week should be Bradly Beal or Victor Oladipo. Brace yourself for some for some more Trashing of the Pacers. Who knows maybe he will confirm a lot of the speculation around his falling out with the pacers.

Oh boy, buckle up for that one folks...

[zallen541]

The 21st century Pacers are a less glamorous (but actually more successful) version of the Blazers. Is it too much to ask for another player with half the charisma of Reggie Miller?

[yoadknux]

And it's sad that this is all some people look at the franchise as. The Pacers are my team. They're not average.

They're also my team, there's nothing wrong with rooting for an average team

[Winngtime85]

Oh boy, buckle up for that one folks...

The story of Vic fumbling the bag not once but twice with two teams then tearing his quad again a few weeks later will go down in history. I mean who fumbles the bag with two teams. What kind of idiotic yes men do you have talking in your ear.

[SaintLouisan]

The story of Vic fumbling the bag not once but twice with two teams then tearing his quad again a few weeks later will go down in history. I mean who fumbles the bag with two teams. What kind of idiotic yes men do you have talking in your ear.

And yet, I suspect he will come out and tell everyone that somehow it is actually all the Pacers’ fault.

[clownskull]

I'd like to say jj is full of it but, I find myself largely in agreement with him.
outside of two ecf appearances, most seasons have seen the pacers either just in or just out of the playoffs. and looking at the draft positions, have resulted in picking in the middle. the picks have largely resulted in acquiring mid-tier talent which gets us mid-tier results.
the pacers have been mostly mediocre these last 20 years.

[kent beckley]

I’m old enough to remember that we almost signed JJ to the Pacers, to the extent that he came out and said he thought he was coming here. I guess the team seems a lot more relevant when they are offering him $12 million.