Untold: Operation flagrant foul (Tim Donaghy documentary)

[Peck]

If you have Netflix you need to watch this show. If you don't have Netflix I recommend you go out and get it to watch this show. Not only is this very well put together by the film makers but it opens up an entire world of possibilities regard the potential validity of the NBA.

Years ago when some of us were saying that while Tim was an obvious felon and you can't always take their word on things but some of the stuff he was saying was really a possibility. Some were telling us that simply put he was a felon and nothing could be taken seriously by either him or his co-conspirators and the NBA was above reproach. We all just kind of left that argument there in the dust and let it lie.

Now that argument needs to be taken up again and the power of the NBA and Stern in particular needs to be called into question.

You can discount Donaghy and you can discount his co-conspirators you can even discount their lawyers and their hired private investigators.

But can you discount the lead agent in charge of the FBI for the Gambino crime squad who discovered this entire conspiracy to begin with? Would he have really offered Donaghy a deal and had him wired up if he didn't believe that there were other refs. involved?

Is there really any doubt that the NBA leaked that news to the press?

Why did Donaghy go from saying there were others involved to taking the full fall to him having more money now than he did then? It is possible he won a lot more gambling and hid it, but there is also the possibility that someone paid him to change his story.

The way the NBA shut down any conversation about this back in the day was always kind of amazing to me. I understand why they didn't want to talk about it, but what I never understood was why real journalist never attempted to get anything beyond the NBA issued press statements and never pressing Stern on live TV to answer.

Also from a Pacers fan perspective I was triggered because his very first game I was at and remember vividly to this day because it was the day IMO that Pacers fans had had enough and we actually were fed up with what was perceived to be preferential treatment and threw all kinds of things on the floor. I remember Larry Brown taking the mic and yelling "let them play". The irony is, Donaghy got that call right, Reggie leaned into Hakeem like a MF'er. But to a lot of people it didn't matter because of years and years of seeing superstar players get that call for them.

Which, btw, was a huge accusation that Donaghy leveled at the NBA back then was that they were instructed to let certain teams (Coastal big market) and certain star players (MJ, Shaq,Magic, etc) get by with certain things, in other words two standards. It shows the NBA game where the referees punished Allen Iverson for a run in with another official by calling palming on him. Two problems I have with that 1. it shows the refs conspired to target a single player and more importantly 2. it shows that the NBA refs have allowed palming for decades. Half of these guards from about the mid 80's on would not have been able to move nearly as well as they did with the ball if the refs. enforced the rule.

No matter your opinion on Donaghy or the NBA for that matter, this is a film well worth watching.

[PacerDude]

Well, something to do tonite.

Thanks.

Ok - took me 2 nights to watch it, but DAMN - it's worth it.

I don't think we - at least I - can take any of the people involved for their word. They're associated with the gambling 'business' and they're just those kind of people. I even include David Stern in the group of people that I can't trust.

The show does open up other possibilities. Just more stuff to think about.

Excellent recommendation.

[PacerDude]

Must see. Opens multiple cans of worms.

[SaintLouisan]

Thanks for the rec, eager to see this.

Even before I do, I will say this: David Stern was an absolute stone cold gangster, in every sense of the term. He was clearly a very, very intelligent individual, but the same keen pragmatism he used to bring unprecedented growth to not only the league but the sport itself (without him, it's not inconceivable that basketball would be at hockey's level today -- or worse) also meant he had little compunction about doing whatever it took to achieve that.

Crushing this story the way he did really sums up what he was all about and just how good he was at his job -- for better or worse.

[Unclebuck]

Just watched this show. Followed this very closely back in the day and read Donagy’s book he wrote.

I remember having arguments with several posters on Pacers Digest who were sure that this was just the tip of the iceberg and it was a matter of time before several other refs were going to involved also. Never happened. Why didn’t it. Blame Stern if you want. Or maybe other refs were not betting on games they reffed.

Donahgy ruined his life. He was making $400k per year and he ruined his professional life and his personal life. Sad really for him.

[vapacersfan]

Thanks for flagging Peck. Is this the same series that did the Mantai Teo special a few weeks back?

I remember following this closely back in the day. I think I even sent a copy or two of the book he wrote to fellow posters here (maybe UncleBuck and someone else as Amazon sent me an extra copy by accident)

I wish we could pull up the old thread - I for one was somewhere in the middle of “the NBA is fixed” and “he was just a bad apple and everyone else is on the up and up”

I had a hard time believing Stern told NBA refs he wanted “X team to win over Y team”; with that said I believed then (and still do today) that NBA referees are human and that personal grudges were a real thing. I, while I have zero proof, also believe Stern pushed hard for stars to get the calls and to be treated differently.

It would be interesting to see the folks who felt strongly one way or the other back then and if they have changed their respective position(s) at all.

[rock747]

Just watched this show. Followed this very closely back in the day and read Donagy’s book he wrote.

I remember having arguments with several posters on Pacers Digest who were sure that this was just the tip of the iceberg and it was a matter of time before several other refs were going to involved also. Never happened. Why didn’t it. Blame Stern if you want. Or maybe other refs were not betting on games they reffed.

Donahgy ruined his life. He was making $400k per year and he ruined his professional life and his personal life. Sad really for him.

Donahgy made more phone calls to Scott Foster than to his bookie.

I haven’t watched this doc yet.

[Peck]

Thanks for flagging Peck. Is this the same series that did the Mantai Teo special a few weeks back?

I remember following this closely back in the day. I think I even sent a copy or two of the book he wrote to fellow posters here (maybe UncleBuck and someone else as Amazon sent me an extra copy by accident)

I wish we could pull up the old thread - I for one was somewhere in the middle of “the NBA is fixed” and “he was just a bad apple and everyone else is on the up and up”

I had a hard time believing Stern told NBA refs he wanted “X team to win over Y team”; with that said I believed then (and still do today) that NBA referees are human and that personal grudges were a real thing. I, while I have zero proof, also believe Stern pushed hard for stars to get the calls and to be treated differently.

It would be interesting to see the folks who felt strongly one way or the other back then and if they have changed their respective position(s) at all.

Yes, it is the same series. It’s also the same series that did the malice at the palace show last year.

[vnzla81]

Kings fans have to be sick with all the bs the refs pulled against them, crazy stuff.

[Rogco]

Look forward to watching this. I hate Stern and think any decent commish would have done twice as well as he did. 100% believe there was more to this.

[neosmndrew]

Definetly had a heavy dosage of "the NBA is more to blame than Donaghy". Doesn't completely exonerate Tim but is very much on his side.

[natjjohn]

When this first was happening, couldn’t help but wonder how a ref was pushing things for gambling purposes and the league apparently has no idea. So either their monitoring sucks/non-existent, the officiating is straight up so bad that they can’t tell when someone is impacting the games intentionally, or the NBA is themselves instructing officiating shenanigans.

The NBA product has been on decline for years (to me), and the officiating has been regularly incompetent to the point of comedy. And these refs are supposedly the best in the world for basketball. Just impossible to believe at times.

[rimrattler]

I still to this day can not stand Stern (even in death). I always found him to be a shady character. If Stern pushed for high profile players to get special treatment ( and I believe he did), that is the same as FIXING a game. I remember reading an article before the 2000 championships about why the Pacers would not win. The article, blatantly said Stern and NBC would never allow it. I still love the game but, it is hard to watch sometimes.

[Dr. Hibbert]

I still to this day can not stand Stern (even in death). I always found him to be a shady character. If Stern pushed for high profile players to get special treatment ( and I believe he did), that is the same as FIXING a game. I remember reading an article before the 2000 championships about why the Pacers would not win. The article, blatantly said Stern and NBC would never allow it. I still love the game but, it is hard to watch sometimes.

I'll never forgive Stern for leaning into rights-carrying sports networks (cough ESPN) to control the narrative around the brawl like he did. The tone around who was to blame literally changed overnight. It was more convenient for Stern to put it 100% at the feet of the Pacers.

Not that any of that needs re-litigated for the billionth time. I'll just never shed a tear for the man.

[vapacersfan]

I don’t want to hijack this thread but the rise and fall of the and1 documentary was fascinating and well done.