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Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
http://www.draftexpress.com/
Some interesting comments on Ibaka and others in Europe.
http://www.draftexpress.com/
Some interesting comments on Ibaka and others in Europe.
The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
Arthur has the footwork of a seasoned pro. He plays offense like JO's first year in Indy. He can turn to his off shoulder for a soft fade jump, he spins with incredible quickness and control in both directions going right into a shot and he runs quick, strong moves right into his post position. Put him in the 3/4 PnR spot at the arc and he's got 2 perfect steps to the wing ready to catch and drive or shoot if necessary.
Almost nothing Arthur does is built on pure athleticism. In fact explictily because of the Chalmers discussion I put on the NC/KS semi-final game tonight. I'd forgotten just how incredible he was in that game. Every move I just mentioned he showed off within the first 7-8 minutes of that game.
As for size, he had no problem with height against anyone NC had on the court, and this included him blocking one shot down into the floor that started a fast break for layup at the other end.
I'm actually slipping into the Arthur over Love camp now in fact.
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Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
Seriously? I'm sky high on Love, but only paid attention to Rush on Kansas.Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
So, I got an e-mail on a trailer for an upcoming movie that involves a few of this years upcoming draft picks. I think the name of the movie is "Gunnin' For That #1 Spot". I think it's playground-based, but if I'm not mistaken both Kevin Love and Beasley (and others, maybe even Bayless) end up in the movie. Link with trailer below.
http://www.gunninmovie.com/index.php/Comment
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Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
well, i'm not high on westbrook, augustin, love, or arthur...doubt i could ever been in the "arthur camp" with how he spurned iu. while there is nobody in this draft with the established post moves of arthur, i'm not sure how that makes him a better talent or better overall player than a randolph, especially considering his height. low post players may be nice, but they haven't been the key cog to many of the recent title contenders.Comment
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Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
Duncan, Shaq, Sheed, Hakeem, etc.
Hell, you can even include Jordan and Kobe in that mix since both were adept at playing in the post as well. The bottom line is a title team almost ALWAYS requires such a player due to the versatility that the post position brings. I'd say that the above players have been pretty "key cogs."Comment
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Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
as i stated "recent title contenders"...did not say title winning teams.Comment
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Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
I mentioned this a few pages back actually. It's done by MCA (Adam Yauch) of the Beastie Boys. At one point Kevin Love gets heckled for going up soft (aka fundamental layup) and in response he starts throwing them down hard and the crowd loves it.Originally posted by imawhat View Post
It has Beas, Love, Bayless and 5 other prospects. It's Rucker Park and has gotten really good buzz. Unfortunately Indy people probably can't see it till after the draft as it's an "art film" since it's a small time documentary.
You're in LA unless I missed the change so you might even be able to find it right now someplace around town.
Look, I'm by far the most on Love's jock around this place (making many posters sick from it
). So I don't say that Arthur impresses me more lightly. I've had a change of heart, slightly. Of course I think Love is off the board by 11 anyway, while Arthur will be out there to take.
Over the season DA wasn't stepping up, it was Rush and Chalmers running the show. But when he did touch it he showed great polish so he did hit my radar. However because of his early non-impression I thought of him more of a background guy even when he had those good tourney games.
Now with time to reflect and review he stands out more to me because I'm seeing some of his top games instead of the early season stuff. I like all the KS kids because they play a very smart yet not overly collegiate game. They worked the type of spacing and position fundamentals that apply to the NBA. Chalmers and Rush would fluidly exchange on switches, talk to each other and make sure everything was covered. They didn't just run the system, they understood it. This applied to most of the other kids too, including Arthur.
But Arthur also has the offensive post footwork to go with that. He gets what the spacing goal of a solid PnR is, he wouldn't just plod into trouble because it was where he was supposed to go, he'd read it and space accordingly. He knows why he's using a move to get post position or why he needs to go someplace different out of a PnR.
DA is the kid that will hit the post quickly (I mean REALLY quickly) before a guy like Harrison can react, then show him the baseline fake sending Hulk flying and leaving him open for the quick turn to the lane. And even when JO comes to help he just switches to the step back fade off the spin and puts it up soft, at the very least putting a rebound in play with two defenders committed out of position.
You don't need to be the best athlete to do that, you just need to understand those options and when to apply them.
Now Love is the same way with somewhat different game. Love is incredibly disciplined on his floor position, won't chase ANYTHING (almost to fault) and always understands how to make the most of a situation (thus the outlet passing). Neither apparently impress people with their athletics (though neither are duds to me), but both play smart basketball and that's my key.
Keep in mind that often NCAA players, while sound and working the team system, are nearly robotic and not really playing as smart as the slower and more controlled system would imply. Those "NCAA stars" hit the next level where more personal awareness is expected and they flounder. At least IMO.
Now this is the first year I've really kept close tabs on so many players so I'm probably in for a trial by fire of humility on what I think I see. So be it. But then again I'm getting paid jack squat for my scouting abilities too.
Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 06-10-2008, 12:39 PM.Comment
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Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
I still think the Pacers will take Jordan at #11. Just a gut feeling. While we're all looking at guards, I think the P's will be looking at bigs.Comment
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Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
I believe the Pacers should go big with the 11th pick, Love, Jordan, and Arthur would be nice additions. Love would more than likely be gone, leaving the Pacers to chose between Jordan and Arthur. I think it would be tough for the Pacers to pass over Jordan just because he is raw and has "big potential." He could be the next Bynum or he could be the next Kwame. Arthur would be the safe pick. He could very well be another Boozer or Horford. The Pacers could very well pick up another 1st round pick and select a PG.Comment
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Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
Comments on Love and Dorsey
An NCAA Final Four rematch ensued Monday in FedExForum as the Grizzlies continued their draft workouts.
For Love and Dorsey: Mission accomplished.
Love, projected to be selected in the upper half of the draft lottery, emerged as the top participant, while Dorsey more than held his own in producing the second-best workout among four big men.
The six-player session also included centers DeAndre Jordan (Texas A&M) and JaVale McGee (Nevada), and guards Kyle Weaver (Washington State) and Jeremy Pargo (Gonzaga).
The focus, though, was on the big men, and Love asserted himself as an above-average passer, perimeter shooter, post scorer and athlete who has enough lateral quickness to avoid being a defensive liability.
“He’s gotten himself into great shape since the (Final Four) loss to the Tigers,” Grizzlies general manager Chris Wallace said. “He’s working out well. He got good measurements at the Orlando Pre-Draft Camp. His athleticism is better than expected. He’s going to do fine in the NBA and go in the upper half of the lottery.”
Love immediately shed 15 pounds after the NCAA tournament, and the training proved worthwhile during impressive full-court, three-on-three and one-on-one exercises.
“I wanted to get quicker,” Love said, “because I’m going to have to play (power forward) in the NBA. I’ll be able to guard (centers) because of my size, but I have to be able to step out on the perimeter and use my quickness. I wanted to show I had the lateral quickness.”
Love displayed excellent shooting from mid-range and ended the workout by burying seven of 10 from beyond the NBA 3-point arc.
Whereas some lottery players rejected the notion of working against so-called lower prospects, Love embraced the idea to prove his stock.
“I’m a competitive guy. It doesn’t matter who I go against,” Love said. “Going one against none isn’t my style. I like to bang. I wanted to play against length. JaVale and DeAndre are pretty big guys, and I scored against them a bunch of times. I’m going to have to play against guys that size at the next level, and that’s just something I had to show.”
While McGee was active and determined, Jordan had the most difficult workout among the big men. He underwhelmed greatly in endurance, defense and low-post scoring. Jordan missed a dunk and shot an air ball free throw.
The best matchups involved Love and/or Dorsey.
Love’s finest moments came against each of his bigger opponents, as he proving to be virtually impossible to guard in the post. During a one-minute drill in which players had to sprint baseline to baseline while stopping and shooting from the elbow, Love connected on five straight shots. The Grizzlies’ staff required seven made shots during that span, and Love converted nine.
Dorsey only sank three baskets during that drill. But, with University of Memphis men’s basketball coach John Calipari watching, Dorsey impressed with his defense and sometimes stunning shot-making in competitive situations.
Dorsey’s fine moments happened when he dunked over a Love block attempt in a three-on-two, full-court exercise, caught a pass in the post and whirled to the basket for a score over Love, and routinely outsmarted Jordan on both ends of the court.
“I want to show everybody I can play with the top guys offensively and on defense, as well,” Dorsey said. “I’ve put in a lot of work in the gym. I just want to play in the NBA.”
Dorsey and Love were the only big men not visibly tired during the slightly more than an hour session.
“Joey can play in the NBA,” Wallace said. “He can be a rebounder, defender and energy guy. I think the draft is going to treat Joey much better than people would have thought at the beginning of the season.”
Love seconded that prediction.
“He’s hungry,” Love said of Dorsey. “He’s a banger. I thought he had a great workout. He hit a bunch of shots and had a pretty nice touch. He actually showed a jump shot. He’ll definitely make a team. He’s big enough and solid.”
Dorsey said he’s worked with NBA players Rudy Gay and Carmelo Anthony in an attempt to make certain he’s seen in a different light.
“I’m getting word that, ‘Joey, you might be drafted in the first round because of your defense.’ I’m like, ‘Wait until they see my offense,’” Dorsey said. “With that, I think I can move up.”{o,o}
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Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
I read part of this earlier and thought Dorsey was moving up. I think he will be a rotation player for sure.Comment
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Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
please don't let Bird draft JordanWhile McGee was active and determined, Jordan had the most difficult workout among the big men. He underwhelmed greatly in endurance, defense and low-post scoring. Jordan missed a dunk and shot an air ball free throw.
"I'll always be a part of Donnie Walsh."
-Ron Artest, Denver Post, 12.28.05Comment
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Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
Originally posted by blanket View Postplease don't let Bird draft Jordan
The thought of the Pacers drafting Jordan makes me want to scoop my eyeballs out with a spoon.Comment
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Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...
After watching highlights of McGee, I noticed he is pretty agile and smooth for a 7 footer, similar to Marcus Camby. I don't know why he didn't dominate for a player his size and playing in a mid-conference. But, he has a very competeive spirit which will do him well in the NBA. I wouldn't mind the Pacers using a second 1st round pick on him. I doubt the Pacers would take Jordan after reading about his lack of stamina, energy, and fundamentals. Especially, after dealing with Harrison, I don't think Jordan is on the radar.Comment
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