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Rule #1

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If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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Duarte

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  • Originally posted by SaintLouisan View Post

    He walked into a good team. They made the second round the year before he got there, he evidently hasn't made them much better as they've not gotten any further than that despite adding other good pieces like Conley and Bogdanovic on top of the 3x DPOY. He's an All-Star level player, sure, but he's not going to be the best player on a team that makes a deep playoff run. I feel that's about the level where Duarte will top out, he will just do it with slightly worse offense but slightly better defense.

    Frankly, if anything the Jazz are evidence in favor of the idea that a team of well-coached very good players but no superstars isn't good enough.
    Others have pointed out how good Mitchell has been in the playoffs, but I wanted to point out as well that while Utah made the 2nd round the year before he got there, their All-Star also walked in free agency that summer. They were projected to be a .500 team because of that loss when he got there.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Gamble1 View Post
      Nuntius argument will fall back on that this was a deep draft which is based on no real data other than projections which are inheriantly highly variable and inaccurate.
      I'd say that the data this year's draft class put up in their previous leagues (be that college or international leagues) is, in fact, real data. I'll tell you what. Interested in a bet?
      Last edited by Nuntius; 10-28-2021, 12:47 PM.
      Originally posted by IrishPacer
      Empty vessels make the most noise.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Motion Offense View Post

        Imagine call the guy who has the 3rd highest playoff scoring game not a star. He averages 29 points for his career in the playoffs
        "Imagine" whatever you want, the fact is: is he one of those top 10 player you guys (rightfully) claim is necessary to win a title? Like **** he is. In other words, he is a supporting cast member on a title team, a Robin like Middleton, etc.

        I don't know what the proper term is evidently, but whatever term applies to Lebron, Giannis, Curry, Kawhi, and other lead dogs who take a team to a title, Mitchell does not deserve.

        I don't expect everyone to agree today but time will prove me right.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Nuntius View Post

          Then let's revisit the last 5 drafts, shall we? We'll focus on players outside the top 10:

          2020 Draft: Devin Vassell, Tyrese Haliburton, Saddiq Bey, Cole Anthony all picked outside the top 10. Tyrese Maxey and Imannuel Quickley picked outside the top 20. Desmond Bane picked at 30. None of them is a star yet and I'm not sure that anyone will become one but they can definitely be good starters.

          2019 Draft: Tyler Herro was picked outside the top 10 and Keldon Johnson was picked at 29. Matisse Thybulle gets a mention at #20 as well as a special defensive talent. Both Herro and Keldon Johnson are off to an amazing start in their 3rd year. Herro is currently averaging 23.3 while Keldon is at 18.3. Tiny sample size, of course, we'll see if they continue to be relied on to score as much for the rest of the season or if they just had a hot start.

          2018: Draft: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Miles Bridges and Michael Porter Jr were all picked outside the top 10. SGA averaged 19 PPG in his second year, 23.7 PPG in his third year and he's averaging more than 20 PPG this year too. Sure, he's leading a tanking team so that scoring isn't translating to success but the same was said about Devin Booker for a long while until their FO improved the pieces around him. Miles Bridges is averaging 25 PPG for Charlotte this year. Again, we'll see if that lasts or if it's just a hot start but, at the very least, Bridges is a pretty good starter. Michael Porter Jr. averaged 19 PPG/7.3 RPG last year for one of the best teams in the league. So, there are definitely some potential stars in this group.

          2017 Draft: Donovan Mitchell and Bam Adebayo both drafted outside the top 10. Both of them All-Stars, Mitchell a definite star. John Collins was picked at 19 and he just signed a huge second contract after being an integral part of a team who made the Conference Finals. OG Anunoby was picked at 23 and we all know how much Pacer fans are regretting not picking him. At least one star in this group (Mitchell).

          2016 Draft: Interestingly, this draft has our current team's best players. Domas was picked at 11, Caris was picked at 20 and Brogdon was picked at 36. Other than them, Siakam was picked at 27 and he did become the go-to guy for the Raptors before his injury. We'll see how he is when he recovers.

          So, these 5 drafts gave us 1 sure-fire star (Donovan Mitchell), a potential star (SGA) and a bunch of players who are either All-Stars already (Bam, Domas) or have all the tools to become one soon if they keep up their performance (Herro, Michael Porter Jr). It also gave us a bunch of good to very good starters (Caris, Brogdon, John Collins, OG Anunoby, Miles Bridges) and some of them may even still have some All-Star potential left.

          And, in my humble opinion at least, the 2021 draft class was much, much stronger and deeper than any of these draft classes. So, yeah, I don't think that it's irrational to hope that we'd unearth a star with that 13th pick. Heck, I wasn't even looking for a Giannisa, Kawhi or anything. I was looking for a Donovan Mitchell.

          In any case, if Duarte reaches Brogdon's level, for example, then I'm 100% fine with the pick. I just believe that we could have found the type of player (go-to wing like Donovan Mitchell) that our team desperately needs in this draft, that's all.
          You went through 5 draft classes, and found one guy that you feel is a lock for a franchise changing player, and expect the Pacers to be able to pick a comparable player with one pick, in one draft? Even if the draft was five times as good as the last five, that means there is one such player in this draft. Assuming that the teams picking 11th or 12th didn’t pick this player, the chances that the Pacers pick him from all the available draftees is still 1 in 10? 1 in 20, maybe. These are some long odds and crazy expectations.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by SaintLouisan View Post

            "Imagine" whatever you want, the fact is: is he one of those top 10 player you guys (rightfully) claim is necessary to win a title? Like **** he is. In other words, he is a supporting cast member on a title team, a Robin like Middleton, etc.

            I don't know what the proper term is evidently, but whatever term applies to Lebron, Giannis, Curry, Kawhi, and other lead dogs who take a team to a title, Mitchell does not deserve.

            I don't expect everyone to agree today but time will prove me right.
            You're talking about superstars. I was talking about stars. There is a difference between the two. Mitchell is not a superstar (not yet, at least) but he definitely is a star. The Pacers, right now, lack that kind of star and it is why a lot of us hoped that we could target a potential star in this draft.
            Originally posted by IrishPacer
            Empty vessels make the most noise.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Nuntius View Post

              I'd say that the data this year's draft class put up in their previous leagues (be that college or international leagues) is, in fact, real data. I'll tell you what. Interested in a bet?

              Sure it is real data for that league or conference during a pandemic where they inevitably had more disruptions to practice and games. The data is staring you in the face. If that data was tight then team selections in the draft would be high percentage hits from year to year and you wouldn't have the high amount of variability. That data is massively flawed and the scouts, pundit and experts get it wrong more than right every year.

              You have an observational bias that relies on inheriantly flawed data if it wasn't flawed then the outcomes or in this case the probabilities would not be so low in that draft range if you were correct. You would see all the exceptional players being drafted in the early and late lottery picks. That is not what you see. So the process or the data you rely on is inheritanly flawed.

              The probability drops dramatically after the first 5 picks exceptional players are very limited in every draft and the vast majority go in the first 5 picks with high amount of certianity.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by kent beckley View Post

                You went through 5 draft classes, and found one guy that you feel is a lock for a franchise changing player, and expect the Pacers to be able to pick a comparable player with one pick, in one draft? Even if the draft was five times as good as the last five, that means there is one such player in this draft. Assuming that the teams picking 11th or 12th didn’t pick this player, the chances that the Pacers pick him from all the available draftees is still 1 in 10? 1 in 20, maybe. These are some long odds and crazy expectations.
                I could have found more if I cherry-picked draft classes but I don't like cherry-picking so I went with the last 5 draft classes. I thought it to be more fair.

                Now, here's the thing about this draft class. It wasn't five times as good as the last five. It was fifteen or twenty times as good. We are talking about a draft class that may go down as one of the Top 10 or 20 in NBA history. To find a comparable class to this one, we'd have to go back to 2009. That's how good I believe this draft class to be which is why I had these kind of expectations. You have every right to disagree with my assessment of this draft class but given that assessment, I don't think that my expectations were crazy.

                In fact, I'm willing to bet that at least 3 players drafted outside the top 10 will become All-Stars, at the very least.
                Originally posted by IrishPacer
                Empty vessels make the most noise.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Gamble1 View Post


                  Sure it is real data for that league or conference during a pandemic where they inevitably had more disruptions to practice and games. The data is staring you in the face. If that data was tight then team selections in the draft would be high percentage hits from year to year and you wouldn't have the high amount of variability. That data is massively flawed and the scouts, pundit and experts get it wrong more than right every year.

                  You have an observational bias that relies on inheriantly flawed data if it wasn't flawed then the outcomes or in this case the probabilities would not be so low in that draft range if you were correct. You would see all the exceptional players being drafted in the early and late lottery picks. That is not what you see. So the process or the data you rely on is inheritanly flawed.

                  The probability drops dramatically after the first 5 picks exceptional players are very limited in every draft and the vast majority go in the first 5 picks with high amount of certianity.
                  Again, though, I'm not talking about every single draft. If that draft was the average NBA draft then I'd be right there with you. But it's not the average NBA draft. It is the best draft in the past decade and a draft that will go down as one of the top 10 or 20 drafts in history.

                  I'll ask again. Are you interested in a bet?
                  Originally posted by IrishPacer
                  Empty vessels make the most noise.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Nuntius View Post

                    You're talking about superstars. I was talking about stars. There is a difference between the two. Mitchell is not a superstar (not yet, at least) but he definitely is a star. The Pacers, right now, lack that kind of star and it is why a lot of us hoped that we could target a potential star in this draft.
                    Well I suppose it depends if you think Duarte can be an All-Star 20-25 PPG scorer and the best player on a team that gets knocked out of the playoffs in the second round in 5 or 6 games. I think he can be, I guess you don't.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by SaintLouisan View Post

                      Well I suppose it depends if you think Duarte can be an All-Star 20-25 PPG scorer and the best player on a team that gets knocked out of the playoffs in the second round in 5 or 6 games. I think he can be, I guess you don't.
                      Indeed. I don't believe that Duarte can be that type of player. Initially, I thought that he'd be a Justin Holiday-type. This was clearly wrong. Now, I think that he could potentially be a Malcolm Brogdon-type. I would be very happy with that outcome. It would make him a good pick. If he can be the type that you think he can be then I'm gonna be absolutely elated.
                      Originally posted by IrishPacer
                      Empty vessels make the most noise.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Nuntius View Post

                        Again, though, I'm not talking about every single draft. If that draft was the average NBA draft then I'd be right there with you. But it's not the average NBA draft. It is the best draft in the past decade and a draft that will go down as one of the top 10 or 20 drafts in history.

                        I'll ask again. Are you interested in a bet?
                        Sure bet away if it makes a difference to you. If you think this is a top 10 NBA draft then we can revisit this and add up the numbers. I have no issue eating crow on my post.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SaintLouisan View Post

                          Well I suppose it depends if you think Duarte can be an All-Star 20-25 PPG scorer and the best player on a team that gets knocked out of the playoffs in the second round in 5 or 6 games. I think he can be, I guess you don't.
                          I think he definitely could be a 20ppg scorer as soon as next season. I think he would struggle to get to 25ppg on a year-to-year basis. He would need to add more playmaking ability to his skillset, right now he seems more like Warren in that he is good at getting his own shot, but isn't really a dribble penetrator or creator.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gamble1 View Post

                            Sure bet away if it makes a difference to you. If you think this is a top 10 NBA draft then we can revisit this and add up the numbers. I have no issue eating crow on my post.
                            Good. Then my bet is that I mentioned above in my reply to kent. At least 3 players drafted outside the top 10 will become All-Stars, at the very least.
                            Originally posted by IrishPacer
                            Empty vessels make the most noise.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Nuntius View Post

                              Good. Then my bet is that I mentioned above in my reply to kent. At least 3 players drafted outside the top 10 will become All-Stars, at the very least.
                              Make it after our pick to make it prove your point. That seems better and makes you look smarter.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gamble1 View Post


                                Again you can just look at the figure one graph and see the range for that pick. It's certainly not a high enough percentage to feel like the Pacers had a good chance for a star which is what some on here felt.

                                Nuntius argument will fall back on that this was a deep draft which is based on no real data other than projections which are inheriantly highly variable and inaccurate.

                                The issue is that there is plenty of evidence in that range to adjust one's expectations on and for me that is clearly represented in the graph over a long enough period of time for every single pick in the draft going back 27 years. If there was an anomaly in the pick range it would show up in a large enough data set. It doesn't show up so it is an irrational expectation to expect a star with that pick.

                                Certianly that puts cold water on peoples high expectations but it also reality. We are unlikely to change the course of the franchise with the modus operandi of the last decade or more. I think most people agree with that sentiment.
                                Yeah I wasn't really involved in this particular discussion, but the big thing that sticks out to me above history is that not all draft classes are the same. I didn't think anyone available for us would be a star except for Sengun. I thought Moody would be a starter for 10-14 years, amd felt that was a good bet, personally. I felt Murphy III was a nice bet if we moved down. I wasn't wishing for a star only, because I knew the team wouldn't want to risk reworking a misfit roster in order to accommodate Sengun.

                                I know the odds of stars coming at that pick, which is almost exactly why (in addition to seeing the writing on the wall) I wanted TJM, Myles/Sabonis, and/or McDermott moved at the deadline last year. Having those guys led to a few more meaningless wins just to get absolutely hammered in the charity play-in. This also led to lower odds of a decent pick.

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