His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

[Naptown_Seth]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

No reason other than FG percentage.

****cough****Tinsley***cough***

We need his defense. There are times when we need to slow it down. JO can be utilized then as well as in the running game.

I strongly agree. Getting JO back and playing somewhere in the ballpark of his best, without expectations of his game from 4-5 years ago returning, will make the team even better. Maybe they are a .500-.520 team now and he makes them a .550 team. He allows the defense to spread out and defend away from the paint more, he cleans up problems created on the outside by Tins or Dun or Troy. And oh by the way, he draws doubles for a reason and that means defensive motion and holes to cut through for easy scores, or open jumpers on the weakside.

"O'Neal isn't concerning himself with the future, except to deliver a message to critics who insist his career is declining.
"I'm not going to be broken down," he said. "Do I believe I'm going to return to my form? Absolutely. I truly believe I'm going to return to my level.""

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This illustrates how sadly delusional JO is. I don't think he gets it. His PERSONAL "level" is not important. It's not about HIM. Its about the team and how many games they win. If he returns and averages 6 points and 3 rebounds, but the team wins every game, then this would bea GREAT success.

If he returns and averages 20 and 10, and the team loses 2/3 of their games, then this is a great FAILURE. But I don't think JO would see it that way.

Because Duncan would be happy playing poorly and unable to contribute to the TEAM in the manner he currently does. Because Reggie caught in a 10 game slump of 25% from 3 wouldn't say "I think I can get back to my level, it's just a slump".

Holy freaking insane bias, when in the hell did it become a bad thing for a player to want to be at his top level. How does that hurt the team??? He didn't say "gets mine" or "put up my numbers" or "get me my touches fools". He said he wants to be at his level.

By the way, so do the Pacers, his teammates, JOB and any decent, rational Pacer fans. You'd trade JO for Bynum or Duncan or whatever...why? To get a guy that can play "at that level".

[McKeyFan]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

Roy Munson-

It's not just J.O. There aren't many upper tier, NBA guys who
'see it that way'.

Duncan

Kidd

Shaq

Wade

Garnett

LeBron

Ginobli

Nash

Billups

Prince

Deron Williams

Chris Bosh


Anyway, I can think of a lot of players that, it seems to me, put team first.

And they seem, generally, to have something in common. Winning records.

[Roy Munson]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

Roy Munson-

It's not just J.O. There aren't many upper tier, NBA guys who
'see it that way'. It's a game where the league has promoted
individual stars and their duels over teams and their rivalries.
Not 'seeing it that way' is the unsurprising result.

That said, it's still pretty FANtastic !

I agree. I kind of see JO as a victim of all the adulation he received during the peak of his career.

[Shade]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

I think some of you guys are reading waaaay too much between the lines here. IMO, some of you just want to dislike JO so much that you'll read whatever you want, just to get riled up even further.

It is important for JO to return to "his level," because if he doesn't, he's not going to be helping the team very much.

[Rajah Brown]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

Roy Munson-

It's not just J.O. There aren't many upper tier, NBA guys who
'see it that way'. It's a game where the league has promoted
individual stars and their duels over teams and their rivalries.
Not 'seeing it that way' is the unsurprising result.

That said, it's still pretty FANtastic !

[Anthem]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

Also, Ike actually plays in the post.

Except that he can't pass.

[Bball]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

As far as the Wells column, sheesh - $43 1/2M . . . and might consider getting a better deal elsewhere. JO! Wise up.

In JO's defense... That was just Wells explaining the situation, not JO saying that.

-Bball

[ABADays]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

JO is an interesting case to me because I like the guy. It's his perception of what HE needs to do for the team to be successful instead of what the TEAM needs for him to do. I don't think we need his 20 points a game to be successful because it takes too many shots and compromises the team plan. I do think we need his defensive POTENTIAL. That's where he could make the most impact. I really don't think he gets that though. It's apparent he sees himself as a star and isn't going to let go of that. As far as the Wells column, sheesh - $43 1/2M . . . and might consider getting a better deal elsewhere. JO! Wise up.

[McKeyFan]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

"O'Neal isn't concerning himself with the future, except to deliver a message to critics who insist his career is declining.
"I'm not going to be broken down," he said. "Do I believe I'm going to return to my form? Absolutely. I truly believe I'm going to return to my level.""

--------------------------------------------------------------------

This illustrates how sadly delusional JO is. I don't think he gets it. His PERSONAL "level" is not important. It's not about HIM. Its about the team and how many games they win. If he returns and averages 6 points and 3 rebounds, but the team wins every game, then this would bea GREAT success.

If he returns and averages 20 and 10, and the team loses 2/3 of their games, then this is a great FAILURE. But I don't think JO would see it that way.

Interesting.

Good reading between the lines.

[Roy Munson]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

"O'Neal isn't concerning himself with the future, except to deliver a message to critics who insist his career is declining.
"I'm not going to be broken down," he said. "Do I believe I'm going to return to my form? Absolutely. I truly believe I'm going to return to my level.""

--------------------------------------------------------------------

This illustrates how sadly delusional JO is. I don't think he gets it. His PERSONAL "level" is not important. It's not about HIM. Its about the team and how many games they win. If he returns and averages 6 points and 3 rebounds, but the team wins every game, then this would bea GREAT success.

If he returns and averages 20 and 10, and the team loses 2/3 of their games, then this is a great FAILURE. But I don't think JO would see it that way.

[Peck]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

Now there's a stat.

Don't forget that this is after last season when the team only went 3-10 without him.

So before that we actually had a winning record without him and a losing record with him.

This also includes the brawl year when we took that long losing streak.

[Peck]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

lol@"he might play tonight in seattle"...no he won't. This day to day crap is stupid. Just put him on IR let him miss the next 5 and then we'll go from there. Really it's getting stupid wondering if he may or may not play.

Just as a reminder, there is no more IR. Players no longer have to go out for 5 games when they are injured or fake injured to make IR spots.

Teams can activate and de-activate players day to day to suit thier needs.

In essance they are doing what you are saying, just without officially de-activating him.

I'm kind of torn though about him staying home vs. going on the road with the team.

Looks to me like he is already doing some day to day practices so if that is the case he needs to be on the road.

As the Captain of the team he needs to be on the bench. He should be the first person off of the bench to meet the team coming off of the floor with words of encouragement and wisdom. It would be nice to see him wave a towl as well..

Now unless he need daily PT with whirlpools, etc.

Then if that is the case he should be here with the trainers, but if that is also the case then he is nowhere near ready to return.

However here is what I really truely wonder.

Jim O'Brien made a statement that Jermaine was not going to play until he could play at a high level but also (& here is the key IMO) practice every day.

You guys do realize that Jermaine O'Neal did not practice at all last season from December on? He did shoot arounds but did not scrimmage or any other exercises with the team.

That means that even after the trade, these new guys did not get to play with O'Neal except on the court.

O'Brien does not seem to be the type that will let that go.

Good for him.

[LAPacer]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

I think Jermaine's knee is really keeping him from having any explosiveness. When it fully heals he can be a 16-11 guy in this offense and make the Pacers a much better team.

[rexnom]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

I agree - he should take as much time as needed ala Shaq to recover from whatever it is that is bogging him down. All this forcing to play is not helping anyone get into any groove.

There is no reason why JO could not get 20 10 within the system...

surely he can also get it outside the system...but if Ike could avg. 14pts a game from the bench before injury - no reason why JO could not avg 20+ ...as long as he is healthy

Also, Ike actually plays in the post.

[Bball]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

Just for the record...
There has been a lot of comments about JO being a 20-10 guy. His career avg is 14.4 and 7.8.

He has only been a true 20-10 guy in 02-03 and 03-04 (where he averaged 20-10 or more) while coming close in 01-02 with 19-10.5.

In 05-06 he was 20.1-9.3
06-07 19.4-9.6

The most important stat is his FG% which has never reached 50% in any season. 02-03 was his best year in that category as a Pacer with .484.
He followed that with:
.434
.452
.472
.436

This year he is at .388

To even be hovering around 20-10 has taken him a lot of shots.

His numbers from Portland (FG%) are very similar. So, even with designing the offense around him, force-feeding him the ball, etc.. it appears his FG% average has consistently stayed the same which is both a bit surprising as well as telling.

-Bball