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Game #23 Pacers vs Knicks

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  • Reminds me a lot of Memphis. Knicks go driving straight into Turner's wheel house and Turner gets huge credit for shutting it down. I respect the shot-blocking but what you are seeing is a very bad and very desperate team. These types of games tell us absolutely nothing about how this team will perform against a highly skilled and disciplined team with a good game plan. Only those games truly measure your team's ability.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
      Reminds me a lot of Memphis. Knicks go driving straight into Turner's wheel house and Turner gets huge credit for shutting it down. I respect the shot-blocking but what you are seeing is a very bad and very desperate team. These types of games tell us absolutely nothing about how this team will perform against a highly skilled and disciplined team with a good game plan. Only those games truly measure your team's ability.
      But he deserves credit for it. Maybe not HUGE credit because yes, the Knicks are bad. But if the Knicks are bad then the bigger problem is that the Pacers didn't manage to score a single point against them in the last 5 minutes! That is what made the game saving blocks game saving and that is why Myles saved his team mates' asses today.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Timmitou View Post

        He had two blocks before that sequence to stop layups that would've also tied the game, but sure, for some reason only the stolen rebound counts.
        He also had putrid 7 points and 6 rebounds, Pacers would have won that game easily with a more competent player in his place.
        @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Timmitou View Post

          But he deserves credit for it. Maybe not HUGE credit because yes, the Knicks are bad. But if the Knicks are bad then the bigger problem is that the Pacers didn't manage to score a single point against them in the last 5 minutes! That is what made the game saving blocks game saving and that is why Myles saved his team mates' asses today.
          They didn't score because our C wasn't carrying his share of the weight on offense.

          Even worse, Turner's game on offense subtracts what this team could do because he's not a good team player on offense. I don't expect him to pass like Domas and have instant reactions like that. But he's about the opposite. He's also getting beat on the boards when he should be boxing out. He doesn't do a single thing except jump at the ball. Yes, he certainly does that well but for goodness sakes would you all look at the rest of his game?

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          • By the way, if Turner was competent on offense he would be getting assists too. He averages 1.1. Domas gets 3.8. We don't have to talk about rebounds which are vastly different. I get the highlight blocks, really. They are more common against bottom feeder dumb teams. But even then look at the whole game. He doesn't bring much. He doesnt move well. Where does it end?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
              By the way, if Turner was competent on offense he would be getting assists too. He averages 1.1. Domas gets 3.8. We don't have to talk about rebounds which are vastly different. I get the highlight blocks, really. They are more common against bottom feeder dumb teams. But even then look at the whole game. He doesn't bring much. He doesnt move well. Where does it end?
              Pacers scored 104 points, Turner scored 7 points out of all those points, they also grabbed 42 rebounds with Turner grabbing 6 of those, other than the block at the end (after turning ball over and giving them a chance to win) this was just another trash game for him.
              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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              • Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post

                They didn't score because our C wasn't carrying his share of the weight on offense.

                Even worse, Turner's game on offense subtracts what this team could do because he's not a good team player on offense. I don't expect him to pass like Domas and have instant reactions like that. But he's about the opposite. He's also getting beat on the boards when he should be boxing out. He doesn't do a single thing except jump at the ball. Yes, he certainly does that well but for goodness sakes would you all look at the rest of his game?
                I agree on your both posts. Offensively he just doesn't fit. Somebody launches a three pointer and Myles running to the rim - boom, stops and starts running to the defense. Domas is a natural rebounder. Very quick, very strong, doesn't mind to be hacked couple times per game cause he knows that the guys who hacked him are hurting more. Offensive rebounding. I watched every single game of Bulls second three-peat. Rodman was a pest and a headache. But he was definitely not as strong or quick as Domas. It takes 1 or 2 or 3 guys to stay close to the rim to try to prevent Domas from getting offensive rebound. And it's a HARD work, makes guys tired. And I don't even want to mention 7.5 screen assists Domas averages per game.
                My patience is running out to babysit Myles anymore. Find your game, find your place or leave the starting C position for Goga. Goga played in Europe, against big, grown-up dudes and hard fouls in Europe are still just fouls.
                Many times I posted that I would like Myles to be like Rasheed Wallace. Deadly baseline fadeway jumper, good 3 point shooter. Can he become one? It's completely up to him.
                12-12-2018, 09:20 PM


                Myles Turner during Vic's postgame interview: "Tell you what the East is in trouble now boy"

                .

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                • The vnzla/BnG constant ****-parade on Myles is beyond tiresome. This is OlBlu-level stuff.
                  There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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                  • Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post

                    They didn't score because our C wasn't carrying his share of the weight on offense.

                    Even worse, Turner's game on offense subtracts what this team could do because he's not a good team player on offense. I don't expect him to pass like Domas and have instant reactions like that. But he's about the opposite. He's also getting beat on the boards when he should be boxing out. He doesn't do a single thing except jump at the ball. Yes, he certainly does that well but for goodness sakes would you all look at the rest of his game?
                    That's just ridiculous. If the lack of scoring in the last 5 minutes was down to Turner, then why did that not manifest itself throughout the game? Turner and Warren had the best +/- of our starters today. Turner isn't a central part of the offense and that's by design, if the offense works in spite of that for 43 minutes in most games including this one, then how on earth is it suddenly on him if the entire offense CONSTANTLY breaks down in the clutch? That just makes no sense.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Timmitou View Post

                      That's just ridiculous. If the lack of scoring in the last 5 minutes was down to Turner, then why did that not manifest itself throughout the game? Turner and Warren had the best +/- of our starters today. Turner isn't a central part of the offense and that's by design, if the offense works in spite of that for 43 minutes in most games including this one, then how on earth is it suddenly on him if the entire offense CONSTANTLY breaks down in the clutch? That just makes no sense.
                      Yep. They pin everything on Myles. "We won the game without our two best players on the back end of a back-to-back on the road, and Myles blocked everything in sight for the last 4 minutes, but missed one offensive rebound (after an ill- advised Warren fadeaway) so forget all the rest... nevermind no one on his team scored a single point during that span including our darling Sabonis."

                      That's what we're dealing with on here on a daily basis. These guys been stirring up similar crap for years. Never happy and they spam their opinion incessantly.



                      Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 12-08-2019, 01:40 AM.
                      There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                        By the way, if Turner was competent on offense he would be getting assists too. He averages 1.1. Domas gets 3.8. We don't have to talk about rebounds which are vastly different. I get the highlight blocks, really. They are more common against bottom feeder dumb teams. But even then look at the whole game. He doesn't bring much. He doesnt move well. Where does it end?
                        To be fair the whole assists thing isn't a fair argument. Sabonis is a far superior passer there is no question about that, but he is also set up to in far more opportunities to those assist as he plays in the pick'n'roll while Turner spots up. On top of this, Sabonis also gets opportunities to run dribble hand offs in particular with McDermott. Am I saying Turner could be as good as Sabonis if given the chance? Hell no, but the numbers are a product of the offense in this case.

                        Myles still plays pretty good defense & is one hell of a shot blocker, but his regression offensively is starting to cause us issues. Turner isn't as bad as he has been showing us, but I think his confidence is waning & he could ultimately do with a fresh start somewhere.



                        As for our team, as we are currently constructed we are probably sitting in the right spot. For the most part we are beating the teams that we are supposed to (Screw you Detroit, but you can't win them all) & when it comes to upper echelon teams we are not on their level yet.....We have a huge ace in the hole with Oladipo, but I'm not sure how he will come back. I'm quite confident that he will get back to a high level, but how long that'll take is another question. Can Oladipo elevate us the way Kawhi did to Toronto or Giannis is doing in Milwaukee? Again I'm not sure, so what we need is another guy to step up to that level Oladipo was playing at his first season here. We have a pretty friggin good 23yr old C (That Lithuanian one) who keeps getting better & it's not outside the realm of possibility he gets there, thing is it may take another couple of years.
                        Oladipo, Sabonis & Brogdon are undoubtedly the 3 key guys for this team, Warren is slowly playing himself into that conversation as well. Lamb, J.Holiday & McConnell are proving themselves to be key role players. Then we have A.Holiday & Bitadze as a couple of legit looking up & comers. That's 9 guys right there who could turn into something pretty darn good, only time will tell.


                        We kind of have 2 options at this point that I can see. #1 is to just stay the course & in a year or 2 as Oladipo & Brogdon hit their prime, Sabonis will have had more time to mature as a star player for us, we will know exactly what Warren, Lamb, A.Holiday & Bitadze look like & personally hope J.Holiday is still with us as well.
                        #2 is to make an aggressive move now for a guy like Love who can potentially help us win now, but potentially stunt the growth of Sabonis, Bitadze & even Warren by taking opportunities away from them.

                        I like the patient approach, by mid way through next season we should know exactly where we are heading & I'm onboard with moving Turner (potentially McDermott as well) not because I don't think he has a use, but more so when it comes time to offer an extension to Oladipo we aren't struggling for cap & can just make him the right offer straight away.
                        Last edited by festar35; 12-08-2019, 02:16 AM.

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                        • I really don't get al this harping on Turner. Last game he sucked, but this game he was fine. His offense was annoying but he helped us well on defense.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
                            The vnzla/BnG constant ****-parade on Myles is beyond tiresome. This is OlBlu-level stuff.
                            The ignore feature is your friend. Both vinny and BNG will be happy for you to use it.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Timmitou View Post

                              That's just ridiculous. If the lack of scoring in the last 5 minutes was down to Turner, then why did that not manifest itself throughout the game? Turner and Warren had the best +/- of our starters today. Turner isn't a central part of the offense and that's by design, if the offense works in spite of that for 43 minutes in most games including this one, then how on earth is it suddenly on him if the entire offense CONSTANTLY breaks down in the clutch? That just makes no sense.
                              Because the rest of our players were probably tired from scoring the entire game. There is a big cost when you have a guy on the floor for more time than any other player and he's not producing on offense. He's not even efficient now. So yes, Turner's game as a whole wears out our players because they are carrying his offensive drag and by late in the game they are out of gas.

                              Edit: Also, gotta include rebounds. Gotta include lack of assists. He rarely gets anyone easy buckets so they have to fight harder to score and as a C he's not a factor on the boards so guys like Jeremy Lamb have to help on the boards instead of getting out on the wings for fast break buckets. Love could help us immensely there by rebounding and passing down the floor. You just have to look at the total contribution, not just the swats. Yes he will swat some desperation drives by bottom feed teams but there wouldn't be any desperation left if he had been producing because the game would be over. There is a very good reason why this team has won 75% of its games without their starting C and only 57% with him.
                              Last edited by BlueNGold; 12-08-2019, 02:36 PM.

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