A more talented team?

[Reggieslegkick]

I know we lost lastnight but after the game I felt great about our team and our roster. I have confidence that had Vic played, that the game would have barely been close, and btw, this was at their home court.
My question is, can you guys remember a top to bottom pacers team with this much talent? The only ones that even maybe come to mind were the pacers teams of the mid to late 90/s with Reggie and maybe the team that got into the brawl.
Honestly, I think this team with Vic can be better than all of those. I guess the team has to be pretty good when a guy like Myles who everyone thought could be a perennial all star, is one of the least popular guys on the team for better or for worse. Anyways, am I forgetting a better pacers team in the last 25 years?? Just wondering what you guys think about where this team looks to stand.

[pacers_heath]

I know we lost lastnight but after the game I felt great about our team and our roster. I have confidence that had Vic played, that the game would have barely been close, and btw, this was at their home court.
My question is, can you guys remember a top to bottom pacers team with this much talent? The only ones that even maybe come to mind were the pacers teams of the mid to late 90/s with Reggie and maybe the team that got into the brawl.
Honestly, I think this team with Vic can be better than all of those. I guess the team has to be pretty good when a guy like Myles who everyone thought could be a perennial all star, is one of the least popular guys on the team for better or for worse. Anyways, am I forgetting a better pacers team in the last 25 years?? Just wondering what you guys think about where this team looks to stand.

Idk, we have talented guys with potential, but nobody on this team has proven much of anything yet, including Vic. Let's get past the first round before we start comparing them to great teams.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk

[bball_nomad]

I am not a lifelong Pacers fan. I'm Lithuanian, a hardcore sports and basketball fan here due certain Lithuanian connection. You guys can compare teams, I think "the brawl team" was pretty good, but this one has just ridiculous backups and backups of the the backups. Pacers were starting Jakkar Sampson and Holiday brothers and still were taking care of business.

What I can say, that even before the season started I saw healthy Pacers as the best in the East. No need to be shy. I already posted many times that goal is to finish number 1 in the East. And do not suck in the post-season (right, Nate?).

First season with Dipo and Domas Pacers got 48 wins and out-played and out scored certain LBJ in the first round. They just didn't get out of the first round. That season Pacers were 0-9 when Dipo didn't play.

Second season with Dipo and Domas here. Dipo missed couple games and finally went down with a very bad, ugly injury. Still, Pacers played well, but weaknesses were glaring. Certain dude always played high, newly acquired guys needed time to get the feel of each other, Domas was baby sitting bench and averaged much less minutes on the floor than he should.

After the moves Pacers made during this summer I thought "damn.....". Colossal upgrade everywhere. And then the injuries. Ridiculous amount to every position. Now guys are coming back. Sure, I wish that Nate would be more opportunistic and imaginative with the guys that he has available, but this will not happen. We know it by now.

So, roster wise in my eyes Pacers are the best in the East. The short time goal right now is to try to bulldoze our way into the #1 position in the East standings before the All-Star break. That would give plenty extra benefits. Everyone will have to analyze and talk that Pacers are damn good.

And yesterdays game - come on guys. Sixers kicked our arses in the first quarter. After that only refs were kicking our arses. That's why players need to grind their teeth and climb up in the standings. Otherwise the games against Bucks, Sixers and Celtics will always be 5 on 8.

[BlueNGold]

We've had better teams including some of the Reggie years, the brawl years and maybe the Hibbert prime years. The reason they were better is that those teams didn't have any glaring weaknesses. Sure, Reggie's teams weren't great defensively but they were adequate. Brawl team wasn't great mentally (obviously considering their name), but they had the potential to go all the way. Hibbert era teams had a weak bench and had the unfortunate task of taking on a super team led by LeBron James....also that era ended prematurely when Hibbert imploded. Still at their peaks those teams were better and true, strong contenders. No real glaring weaknesses on any of them IMO. Not like this team.

Our main glaring weakness was on display last night because our starting C couldn't come remotely close to guarding their starting C. Don't get me started on his airball shots and lack of instinctive play and offensive moves. We will also fall short defending the bigger wings. This is the #1 reason the Pacers have a GREAT need to move Myles Turner and a package to acquire at least a Thad Young type defender. Shocking that people think Domas will handle that chore.

The good news?:

We do have the best PG in the history of the NBA Pacers in the President, Malcolm Brogdon.

We do have one of the better bigs in the history of the NBA Pacers in Domantas Sabonis.

We have one of the deeper teams in memory. Maybe the best backup PG in awhile in TJ McConnell. Extremely good pickups in Lamb and Warren.

[bball_nomad]

We've had better teams including some of the Reggie years, the brawl years and maybe the Hibbert prime years. The reason they were better is that those teams didn't have any glaring weaknesses. Sure, Reggie's teams weren't great defensively but they were adequate. Brawl team wasn't great mentally (obviously considering their name), but they had the potential to go all the way. Hibbert era teams had a weak bench and had the unfortunate task of taking on a super team led by LeBron James....also that era ended prematurely when Hibbert imploded. Still at their peaks those teams were better and true, strong contenders. No real glaring weaknesses on any of them IMO. Not like this team.

Our main glaring weakness was on display last night because our starting C couldn't come remotely close to guarding their starting C. Don't get me started on his airball shots and lack of instinctive play and offensive moves. We will also fall short defending the bigger wings. This is the #1 reason the Pacers have a GREAT need to move Myles Turner and a package to acquire at least a Thad Young type defender. Shocking that people think Domas will handle that chore.

The good news?:

We do have the best PG in the history of the NBA Pacers in the President, Malcolm Brogdon.

We do have one of the better bigs in the history of the NBA Pacers in Domantas Sabonis.

We have one of the deeper teams in memory. Maybe the best backup PG in awhile in TJ McConnell. Extremely good pickups in Lamb and Warren.

I'll repeat myself - it's not for me to evaluate.

Just - Dipo already represented Pacers in an All-Star weekend and we have two more potential candidates in Brogdon and Domas. 3 All-Stars in a starting line-up - that's pretty special.

[BlueNGold]

I'll repeat myself - it's not for me to evaluate.

Just - Dipo already represented Pacers in an All-Star weekend and we have two more potential candidates in Brogdon and Domas. 3 All-Stars in a starting line-up - that's pretty special.

I like those guys a lot. But the question is, is this the most talented NBA Pacer team?

I don't think so. We got better by replacing Collison with Brogdon...a huge positive. We added Lamb and Warren, but lost Bojan and Thad. I consider that to be a negative. We've seen further development from Domas. Maybe a step back for Myles. Sum it all up and we are a more talented team than last year.

We just are not as good as some of those teams that regularly beat teams like Philly. In fact, normally the only thing stopping us from getting to the finals was Jordan or LeBron. We don't even have Durant to contend with in the east. So, while I REALLY like the direction the Pacers are going now, they aren't that good. Not yet.

[McKeyFan]

Including Dipo:

Brogdan > Mark Jackson (barely)
Dipo = Reggie
Warren < McKey
Domas = Dale Davis
Myles < Smitz

Slight edge to 2019 Pacers


Brogdan > Tinsley
Dipo > 2005 Reggie
Warren < Artest
Domas < JO
Myles < Foster

Slight edge to 2005 Pacers.


Brogdan > Hill
Dipo > Lance
Warren < PG
Domas = West
Myles < Hibbert

Even stephen between 20012 and 2019 Pacers

[bball_nomad]

I like those guys a lot. But the question is, is this the most talented NBA Pacer team?

I don't think so. We got better by replacing Collison with Brogdon...a huge positive. We added Lamb and Warren, but lost Bojan and Thad. I consider that to be a negative. We've seen further development from Domas. Maybe a step back for Myles. Sum it all up and we are a more talented team than last year.

We just are not as good as some of those teams that regularly beat teams like Philly. In fact, normally the only thing stopping us from getting to the finals was Jordan or LeBron. We don't even have Durant to contend with in the east. So, while I REALLY like the direction the Pacers are going now, they aren't that good. Not yet.

Maybe Dipo will come 99.99% healthy with less Diva in him and he will click with the new guys like a most precise piece in the Swiss watch? Brogdon + Dipo back court, defensive and offensive nightmare for any opponent, Domas getting every single defensive rebound and Myles will have a new chip in his head to replace the old one and will start averaging 3+ blocks for game? Right now to watch Pacers defend is a pleasure. Guys are busting their butts, young, long, quick. Domas should be spelled and pronounced as DoomA$$ (opponents see his Lithuanian butt on the floor and know that their are Doomed ). And Myles could try to develop into Rasheed Wallace 2.0. Point is - already one of the top defensive team will get and upgrade with the Dipo's return thus making more easy points of opponents turnovers: fast-breaks, transition offense with blazing guns, Domas crashing offensive boards (Myles could do that too effectively).
Team is young and new. Plenty of space for the internal growth both as individually or team.
Nate needs to realize that his guys are already ready to play with poise and smart, effective and efficient execution against anybody. So Nate, be less of who you are (cool, collected gentleman of the game), but fight more for your guys and with your guys. Cause right now out of time-outs play, last couple minutes stands in a competitive game are pretty bad.
I live in Chicago. After Reinsdorf turned the switch off on one of the best teams ever, I saw never ending rotation with the young prospects and average to horrible head coaches (Tim Floyd was something uke ). And Scott Skyles came to town. Guys, he had so many tricks up his sleeve that for the whole his tenure with the Bulls, team had the best execution after time-outs, clock management at the end of the game and many game winning shots. It's a very good feeling to have then you know and trust that even if you are down by 2 and just 2-3 secs left till the end of the game, your chances to come out with a W are very high.

Anyway, yes, right now Pacers are definitely not there yet. But even this season, if team will start to operate like a Swiss watch and Nate will become more and better aware of the all little small buttons that are on the watch - we could become witnesses of something special.

Ahhhhh, enough of the same and same. December, January, February - and if Pacers are somewhere between 1-3 in standings in the East - we will bump this thread

[BlueNGold]

Including Dipo:

Brogdan > Mark Jackson (barely)
Dipo = Reggie
Warren < McKey
Domas = Dale Davis
Myles < Smitz

Slight edge to 2019 Pacers


Brogdan > Tinsley
Dipo > 2005 Reggie
Warren < Artest
Domas < JO
Myles < Foster

Slight edge to 2005 Pacers.


Brogdan > Hill
Dipo > Lance
Warren < PG
Domas = West
Myles < Hibbert

Even stephen between 20012 and 2019 Pacers

Regarding your Reggie team comparison. Individual talent you might be right. But that team fit together much better and had less in terms of flaws.

[jrwannabe]

Including Dipo:

Brogdan > Mark Jackson (barely)
Dipo = Reggie
Warren < McKey
Domas = Dale Davis
Myles < Smitz

Slight edge to 2019 Pacers


Brogdan > Tinsley
Dipo > 2005 Reggie
Warren < Artest
Domas < JO
Myles < Foster

Slight edge to 2005 Pacers.


Brogdan > Hill
Dipo > Lance
Warren < PG
Domas = West
Myles < Hibbert

Even stephen between 20012 and 2019 Pacers

Do the bench and see if the results are the same. Should revisit this mid season

[Eleazar]

I don't think the top end talent is as high as the 2004/5 Pacers, but this is definitely the deepest Pacers team I've ever seen. I think of Dipo returns to peak form this starting 5 would be as good as the 2012 starting 5. This team also has the weakest coach of the bunch.

Those previous three teams all had something that I think this team is currently missing come playoff time (not including coaching). The late 90's teams I think are most similar in talent distribution, but those teams had a ton more playoff experience and experience playing together. The 05 and 12 teams had similar experience, but they both had at least two top tier players at their positions. This team, as of today, really only has a single top tier talent in Oladipo. That is fine because we are loaded with second tier talent, similar to the 90's, but we don't have the experience yet. I think that spells a second round exit for us this year.

I hope we can keep the group of Brogdon, Oladipo, Warren, Lamb, Holiday, Sumner, Sabonis, and Goga together for a while because I think that group could win a title with some more experience. I also think there is still a chance that any one of those guys can take another developmental step and become a first tier talent next to Oladipo.

[BlueNGold]

I don't think the top end talent is as high as the 2004/5 Pacers, but this is definitely the deepest Pacers team I've ever seen. I think of Dipo returns to peak form this starting 5 would be as good as the 2012 starting 5. This team also has the weakest coach of the bunch.

Those previous three teams all had something that I think this team is currently missing come playoff time (not including coaching). The late 90's teams I think are most similar in talent distribution, but those teams had a ton more playoff experience and experience playing together. The 05 and 12 teams had similar experience, but they both had at least two top tier players at their positions. This team, as of today, really only has a single top tier talent in Oladipo. That is fine because we are loaded with second tier talent, similar to the 90's, but we don't have the experience yet. I think that spells a second round exit for us this year.

I hope we can keep the group of Brogdon, Oladipo, Warren, Lamb, Holiday, Sumner, Sabonis, and Goga together for a while because I think that group could win a title with some more experience. I also think there is still a chance that any one of those guys can take another developmental step and become a first tier talent next to Oladipo.

I think Brogdon is already there with Dipo if you consider the complete game. Brogdon is every bit as good as Danny Granger.

[Eleazar]

I think Brogdon is already there with Dipo if you consider the complete game. Brogdon is every bit as good as Danny Granger.

Possibly, but I've been in China for a few weeks, so I've missed quite a few games. I'll need to see a few more before I'm ready to agree.

[McKeyFan]

I think Nate is a little bit better than Vogel. Not by much. They are both are significantly worse than Carlisle and Larry Brown. I'll give Brown the nod over Rick.

[Peck]

Including Dipo:

Brogdan > Mark Jackson (barely)
Dipo = Reggie
Warren < McKey
Domas = Dale Davis
Myles < Smitz

Slight edge to 2019 Pacers


Brogdan > Tinsley
Dipo > 2005 Reggie
Warren < Artest
Domas < JO
Myles < Foster

Slight edge to 2005 Pacers.


Brogdan > Hill
Dipo > Lance
Warren < PG
Domas = West
Myles < Hibbert

Even stephen between 20012 and 2019 Pacers

While Math certainly is not my thing, isn't your review of the 90's Pacers vs the 2019 Pacers off by your own counting? Brogdan is the only superior player in your count while you have McKey & Smits above their counters with Dipo & Domas being equal. Wouldn't that mean a slight edge to the 90's pacers?

That being said, Dipo has had one spectacular year and one half year where I wouldn't call it spectacular. While Reggie was a loafer in the regular season, playoff Reggie was a real thing. Maybe in a couple of years I would call them equal but for now, until we get more than one great season I have to get the edge to Reggie and this is coming from someone who was often a Reggie critic. As to Dale vs Domas? Damn that is tough. Both are superb rebounders, screen setters. However Domas is elite vs Dale on offense while Dale was elite vs. Domas on defense. Equal is probably right for the moment. However I have a feeling that Domas will end up higher because I truly believe offensively he is still just scratching the surface.

As far as coaching goes I would rank them like this.

1. Leonard
2. Vogel only slightly ahead of Brown and I will explain why below
3. Brown
4. Carlisle
5. McMillan
6. Bob Hill

Coaching encompasses many aspects however player management (meaning ego's, roles on team, etc.) is one of the bigger ones. Frank for the most part was superb at this. Larry was by far the better traction, he's better than anybody on that list including Slick, but he just could not get along with people.

Slick obviously was the master of both.