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Originally posted by Taterhead
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The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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No, you're right. My statement does give an half-in opinion despite what I said about competition. To clarify, I think the currently constructed GSW is too big of a Superteam to be beaten in any series. Given the "problems" that Indiana has attracting free agents, I think Indiana would be premature in trying to build a team to contend for the championship. The Lebron/Wade/Bosh Miami Heat was a superteam, but I felt they were always beatable. The Warriors are basically an All-Star team on cheap salaries. Don't get me wrong. If a team beats them, I will be completely shocked, but I don't expect that to happen especially when you have a Cousins in the middle who will only get better as the season goes.
Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George? -
Who's saying that? I see some people saying trade a future pick for a star, I see others say trading for a future pick.Originally posted by BillS View Post
The Owens trade is the exact type of trade most people are railing against. You don't trade picks unless you get a star or you are making a run for the title. Trading for a mediocre veteran to try to win 45 games again and sacrificing the future is the exact sort of deal you typically want to avoid.Comment
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I know I'm more on the Pacers ownership side of things but I wouldn't care if they tanked at some point in the future. I just think the team is too close to contending right now. They have 4 or 5 players that could be key players on a championship team. They just need a big league player to make it work. There will be several of them available this Summer. No way Kyrie, KD, or Klay will be taking their talents to Indy. That doesn't mean that they couldn't appeal to a player like Kimba Walker, Jimmy Butler, or Tobias Harris. We also know that Jrue Holiday and Mike Conley would be interested in playing in Indy and there are other players that could perhaps be traded for using available capspace.
I think more Pacers fans should just wait and see what happens this Summer before deciding that the Pacers won't ever do what it takes to win a championship. This is the first time in their NBA history that they will have max free agent cap space and I really think KP is going to do something big with it.Comment
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The Pacers are not remotely close to contending. When you have Darren Collison as a key member of your starting unit, often leading in points, you are by definition not contending.Originally posted by naptownmenace View Post
With Myles, we do have an elite defensive big man. His defensive game is the shiny object on this team. His offense is decent along the lines of other starters in the east but nothing special. With Bogie, we have a solid 3rd or 4th option on a contender who is essentially being called on to be the 1st or 2nd option. Domas has looked good and bad this season...not always solid. At some point in December, Myles passed him up in terms of value to the team.
Collison is a backup whose game will get exposed in the playoffs. Teams just need to pressure him. Joseph is a good backup and inconsistent like a backup. Thad is a borderline starter who is not a big-time producer like a DWest was a few years ago.
This is a good group of guys. It's not a great team that's going to make noise in the playoffs.Comment
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Because Indiana is different and always has been. We have a love for the game of basketball that crosses all lines of rationality.Originally posted by naptownmenace View Post
They made a movie about our HS tournament. We have like 16 of the top 17 high school gyms in the world, in this tiny state in the middle of nowhere. The fans here just flat out love the sport. Everyone has a goal. Parks have pickup games being played everytime there is a nice day. Our HS championship game outdraws NYC. I watched Lance Stephenson play in the city championship game and there was about 5 thousand people there. The game with Damon Bailey drew 60k in Indianapolis. Its just different here. There isnt a lot else to do, so we fell in love with basketball.
Our fanbase is highly intelligent when it comes to the sport, and they know when the Pacers are legit. I dont think they see this team as legit right now. And there isnt anyone on the team they are excited to go see. Its not a knock on them, they just dont excite many people.
It boils down to this, I think they have done a poor job marketing this team for a long time now, and combined with the conservative approach.......it doesnt generate much excitement. So Indiana fans are content watching high school and college. Its a more palatable atmosphere for a basketball enthusiasts than a NBA game."Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"Comment
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I felt like there was a lot of opportunity to improve the roster at the deadline, and they had the assets to make a move. For whatever reason, they chose to wait.Originally posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
But, we have a long, long way to go. So I dont understand the patience, and this was an excellent opportunity to get value for a guy like Bogie or Thad or DC, and we dont have many assets we want to part with outside of that.
I dont want them to trade everyone and he horrible for 5 years. I want them to spend money and create excitement and fill the fieldhouse back up. Because I believe it can be done."Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"Comment
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I am not ragging on anyone just pointing out the opportunities were there. They were missed for whatever reason but a miss is a miss.Originally posted by BillS View Post{o,o}
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And I won't necessarily disagreed with you. It just feels like we would be "wasting" a contract year on any player Indiana would have acquired this season. GSW is a domino that must fall first, and I might be overstating their dominance when compared to other teams. Take GSW out of the equation, and I don't believe any other team in NBA has the same level of talent to be dominant unless we have a bunch superstars go to one team on some ridiculously low contracts ala Cousins.Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/GSW.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/IND.html
https://hoopshype.com/2019/02/08/nba...e-top-players/
Indiana is in really good position to build one of hell of a team next offseason (presuming that they don't overpaid). I like the team we have now, and they're fun to watch. I just say ride out this season, hope that Victor comes back strong, and try to make a splash during the offseason.
EDIT: Interesting...Indiana actually has one of the lowest payrolls in the league.Last edited by ksuttonjr76; 02-22-2019, 06:41 PM.
Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?Comment
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I know it will sound crazy but I really enjoy some of these types of posts. I think its great to see fandom from all sides. I wish we could keep the name calling to a minimum but for the most part both of the recent posts have been good sounding boards for the digest.
I sit squarely in the middle of the entire debate and it depresses me to no end. It just shows me that I'm getting old and less passionate about things. When we were younger BillS & had the exact same debates back in the 90's on the old star board. Here we are all of these years later and its weird to see us more closely resembling each other opinions. However to his credit he is holding firmer to his view's than I did of mine.
Anyway I'll say this. I revere Herb Simon for saving our franchise and one could argue really truly keeping Indianapolis relevant in the early 80's. Without the Pacers there might not be a Colts or the thousands of other major sporting and convention events that came here.
But having said that I do believe that Herb has very specific goals for the franchise each year and he has limits to what he will spend to do it.
Also you have to understand that BillS lives in the shadow of Nelson Skalbania (google him) and has never fully recovered from the Racers moving.
Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13Comment
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This is something me and my father argue about regularly, he also reveres Herb Simon for what hes done for the city of Indianapolis.Originally posted by Peck View Post
My take is that the City has been pretty damn good to him as well. For example, the circle center mall deal had a lot to do with the fact he owned the Indiana Pacers and his status in our community. We have paid him back for that, and his investment in the team has paid off in a ridiculous way. This organization went from having a telethon to stay solvent, to being worth 1.4 billion dollars in about 30 years. Thats insane.
Maybe its because I was only 5 when we had the telethon and dont remember it, but I just cant ignore that. To not be a tax payer, ever, just blows my mind and strikes me as someone who just isnt willing to do what it takes, or cant. I dont believe he can't."Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"Comment
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I never addressed this post, which brings up a lot of great points, most of them I absolutely agree with.Originally posted by BillS View Post
But Bill, one thing you can bank on is that to win the chip, you must spend. To win the respect of the players around the league and be viewed as a contender, you must spend. To be an attractive destination and a place the players want to be, you must spend.
And we dont spend.
We just lost PG, not because of our market size, but because he lost respect for the organization. Why? Because we didnt spend. And his opinion of his experience in Indiana is nothing but a horrible commercial for our beloved team thats being broadcast to every player in the league.
I dont want guarantees. I want effort. I want passion and dedication.
I want an owner who spends.Last edited by Taterhead; 02-23-2019, 12:06 PM."Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"Comment
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Is not spending really the reason why PG lost respect for the organization, though? I think that the reason why PG left was twofold. The first was that the ECF core we had was destroyed when we collapsed and Roy was no longer the player he was. That core without Roy was just not potent enough to win a title. The second reason, imo was the public spats he had with Bird about the way he was being used (Bird's view that PG had to play PF and that PG "don't make decisions around here"). Granted, that second reason was not as important as the first but I do believe that PG felt disrespected and that he therefore ownd no loyalty to that FO.Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
I don't think that spending was an issue simply because we didn't break up the core because we refused to spend to keep a player. OKC could be accused of that when they decided to trade away Harden because they couldn't afford him. We, on the other hand, tried to keep every single player of our core. The one player who we didn't manage to keep was Lance. But I don't think that you can say that we failed to keep Lance because we didn't spend. We offered Lance a 5 year $44M deal and he chose to decline it and accept Charlotte's 2 year $18M deal. That's not the Pacers refusing to spend. That's Lance deciding to gamble on himself and take a shorter deal in the hopes that he'll get a huge deal in two years. Unfortunately for Lance, that gamble didn't work out.
Look, everyone here knows that I'm not a fan of how Bird managed the team in his last 2-3 seasons here. It's a topic that I have beat to death. So, take it from a big Bird critic. Lance leaving wasn't Bird's fault. It was Lance's fault.Originally posted by IrishPacer
Empty vessels make the most noise.Comment
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Originally posted by Taterhead View PostI also think PG left because of Bird's lack of desire to communicate. Like it or not, top players in the league want to know what is happening and at least feel they have a part in the decisions made around them. It doesn't have to be the supposed situation where Lebron makes all the decisions, but a valued employee is made part of the decision-making process in any good organization. Bird was completely a "do what you're told and shut up about it" guy - because, like lots of other things he expected from players, it was the way he was and he could not conceive of any player wanting or needing to be anything else.Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
I want SMART spending. We've not only seen ourselves how we can spend on the wrong players and be stuck with a bad team and no flexibility, this year 4 of the top 12 teams in spending are completely out of the playoffs. The money had better have at least a 50-50 chance of taking us to the top if we're going to be stuck with the results for 3-4 years.Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
The one thing I think we can agree on is that this offseason will say a lot about how KP is able to act. The thing I want us to be careful of is the consistent narrative around here that lack of results means no one bothered to try. If we offer Kyrie the max to come here and he goes somewhere else instead, it will be spun by some that we didn't really bother. Also, there's the idea that if nothing leaks to the press then nothing is being done - which bites the perception of the Pacers hard because they are one of the tightest-lipped organizations in the league.BillS
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...Comment
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Agreed. And that's why I'm happy that KP is involving the players in his decision-making and acting like a GM in this day and age should act.Originally posted by BillS View PostOriginally posted by IrishPacer
Empty vessels make the most noise.Comment
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Well I hope so.......I would be a bit concerned if you wanted dumb spending. We all want them to be smart.Originally posted by BillS View Post
I just am always looking at this team wondering what it would be like with that 1 extra key piece we could get if we were willing, and thats when the blood pressure starts rising and the blood comes to a boil.
I feel like informing Herb that his kids might actually be better off without all that money after he dies. They might earn some of their own and that wouldnt be the worst thing ever."Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"Comment
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