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Loved the game last night. Everybody played so well. I saw an article on cornrows about how the pacers dont give their rookies much of a chance to develop, they normally rely on vetrans, generally, instead of giving more burn to ones like Leaf, Holiday, Sumner and Alize. I thought, so much depends on what the coaches see in practice, in full court practice games. What it is they saw when the observad Holiday in practice? Was what he did on the court a suprise? Did they know he was so good and effective? If so, why didn't they get him in sooner? It would leave me to believe that something is not quite kosher,? But they are not idiots, right?
The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Depends on who you talk to. Fans in general think the coaching staff knows nothing about who should play or start. Fans base their decisions on how players look in limited minutes or how they looked on a different team the previous year, or often just general "why not try it?" Fans don't see practices, they don't see how players fit together when working sets, and they don't know what the plan might be that a coaching staff has set up to bring players along and fit with certain other players.Originally posted by Jetman View Post
Huge examples are the astonishment when the 2nd team position doesn't automatically start when the first team guy is out, or why a player doesn't get leapfrogged into the starting lineup when he has a good game at backup, or why we never see a player get playing time who "obviously" is the "answer".
Decent NBA players tend to look fantastic their first few major outings because they are energized by getting playing time and because the opponents don't know what they can do. The question is whether they will come back to earth after there is a body of scouting on them. It is why Dipo continuing to add new levels is UNusual rather than usual.
The bottom line for me is that coaches are trying to get consistent results. A rookie in particular does not have a body of work that gives coaches confidence in their ability to be consistent. I think most high-buzz rookies have a huge advantage in that they are drafted by teams without any choice but to play them, while rookies with consistent players ahead of them in the line-up will need some kind of lucky break to raise their profile in the rotation.BillS
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard... -
When you're dealing with a team that figures to be in the running for home court in the playoffs, and your draft pick corresponds to that sort of record, I think it's generally wise to bring a rookie in slowly. Don't put pressure on them to carry a heavy burden for a team planning to contend. If you're a cellar dweller, then by all means, play the kids and let them learn. But in our situation, it makes sense to play the vets and only look for spot minutes for young guys. It allows them to come along at whatever pace they're comfortable with.
That said, I do wish it was a little more of a priority for Indy. I'd like to see these guys get more opportunities. We've had a number of close games so far this year, so maybe it was supposed to happen before now, but games were too tight to throw in a rookie. Who knows?
But now the genie is out of the bottle and we'll see what the priority is once Vic comes back. If Holiday continues to get minutes and produce, Nate will have to make a choice. And if Holiday can really produce like he's doing, maybe Pritchard has to make a choice. But less than 20 games into Holiday's rookie season, I wouldn't worry too much about a slow approach to playing time on the current 3 seed in the East.It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.Comment
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Regarding Holliday if he continues to perform he will get minutes and next year
he will start or get major back up minutes. For Alize or Anigbogu that will be a slower process{o,o}
|)__)
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This will probably be unpopular, but I wasn't THAT impressed by Holiday. A lot of his points came from some ill advised shots he kind of just jacked up and was lucky they went in. He did have a few nice ones the last couple games though. He seemed to look for his shot a little too much rather than just playing solid basketball.
That being said, he seems like he has potential. Maybe even more than we thought.Lifelong pacers fanComment
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Who’s going to lose minutes so Aaron Holiday can play?
After two great games for the Indiana Pacers, it is important that the team finds minutes for Aaron Holiday.
Aaron Holiday has been playing out of his mind in the last two games. After a sensational performance against the Atlanta Hawks on Saturday, many Indiana Pacers fans wondered if he could keep up that level of play in another game.
Boy did he. He was even better in the Pacers win over the Utah Jazz, showcasing an excellent feel for the game and scoring in particular. He didn’t look like a typical rookie in either game. He looked like a veteran.
But he is a rookie, which means it is important to A) see how real this stretch of two great games is and B) continue to develop him. To do both of those things, playing time is required. And not just garbage time, like he got early in the season. Real, legitimate playing time with rotation players and against rotation players is imperative in learning more about Aaron Holiday and helping him improve his game. MORE FROM 8 POINTS, 9 SECONDS
That is where there is trouble. One of the best things about the 2018-19 Indiana Pacers is that they are incredibly deep. They have 9 or 10 guys who are effective NBA veterans who can help the team win on any given night. Add in TJ Leaf and Edmond Sumner, two young guys who have shown some stuff, and the Pacers have 12 guys fighting for minutes already. It is hard to find time for another guy (once Victor Oladiporeturns from injury, of course).
But Holiday has been so good that you have to. Making room for him to play consequential minutes is the next step for the team. So let’s figure out who we can take some minutes away from to make room for the rookie.
Since Holiday is a point guard, looking at the point guard rotation seems like an obvious place to start. But it really doesn’t help us find an answer. Cory Joseph has been stellar this season. The way he fits with Victor Oladipo combined with his career shooting numbers and much-needed defense has Joseph looking irreplaceable at this point in time.
Additionally, while underwhelming compared to his earth-shattering season in 2017-18, Darren Collison has been important to the success of the current team. 47.1% of his threes have fallen over the past 8 games, and after a 7 assists/0 turnover game against the Jazz, it seems that some of his talents taking care of the ball have returned. DC’s role is reduced, and maybe you could scrape away one or two minutes from the veteran in lieu of Holiday, but that would not be my preferred route. Simply replacing veteran point guard minutes with Holiday minutes seems impossible. So we are going to have to get a little creative. Thankfully, there is an easy and plausible solution.
The aforementioned TJ Leaf currently averages 6.6 minutes per game, but that number is deflated thanks to an injury. A healthy Leaf manages to snag about 8 minutes per game, and he grabs them late in the first quarter and early in the second quarter. If that first stint goes well for Leaf, Head Coach Nate McMillan will do that same thing in the late third/early fourth quarter.
The way Holiday is playing means you almost have to give Holiday Leaf’s minutes and get creative with the surrounding lineup. We know that Cory Joseph can play off-ball guard, so a lineup of Holiday-Joseph-Tyreke Evans–Doug McDermott–Domantas Sabonis could be a cohesive and talented bench group.
Holiday plays very well off of Joseph. He cuts away from the ball on offense and can guard the lesser guard on defense, CoJo is a great fit as a backcourt partner for the youngster. Aaron Holiday said as much himself after the game on Monday.
Plus, once the second quarter starts, you could mix-and-match a few starters into the equation as well. You could get creative. I was just pointing out an all-bench lineup to show how Holiday could fit into Leaf’s spot. But there are options.
Replacing Leaf with Holiday gets us to 8 minutes for the rookie. Combine those with one or two minutes from DC and you have 10. That’s probably enough to develop your rookie point guard adequately while effectively using his services. Plus, he will get significant minutes in blowouts anyway, so this is the best of both worlds. It will keep him fresh for those situations.
This is my personal solution to getting Holiday more minutes for the Indiana Pacers. Perhaps the team has different ideas. Regardless, it is imperative that they find a way to play him more. He’s been too good to ignore.Sittin on top of the world!Comment
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TJ Leaf has average 2-3 minutes a game the last 6 games. He's not a source for minutes. I think there is a clear choice and that's to bench Collison.
Collison isn't in the team's long term plans or at least he shouldn't be in them. He's 32 next year and he's never been able to defend and that hurts our chances in the playoffs. He's taking minutes from a guy who should see development. The reality is, if Holiday doesn't perform you can just put DC back out there as CoJo's backup until such time DC is traded. If DC is traded and Holiday busts, you have other options on this team at PG. We are loaded there. TyReke can play more minutes.
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So, we're talking about player development and the solution is that ?? He had 2 nice games. Agree 100%. And I agree that he should be getting regular minutes. I also think he still needs to be brought along - I don't really want to say slowly - let's call it bringing him along with a plan. If he continues and continues to out-perform the 'plan', then maybe you change the plan. But 2 nice games (and a lot of garbage minutes last nite) don't dictate that he slides into the starting lineup.Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
How many games do you give him before it's pass/fail ?? 5, 10, 20, 40 ?? I'd rather see him earn it from the bottom up. There's a reason he didn't get much time early on. And he's obviously impressing the coaches lately to get these chances now. Do or die isn't the way to handle a rook.Comment
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Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I would start CoJo and bring Aaron off the bench. I have little use for Collison.Originally posted by PacerDude View Post
So, I wouldn't start Holiday just yet. I am hoping he can be started sometime early next year but that depends on his performance.Comment
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I have little use for Collison.... little harsh broOriginally posted by BlueNGold View Post
Sittin on top of the world!Comment
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I'd rather see Holiday take McDermott's minutes. Even if he had to guard SFs, Holiday would do a better job than McDermott.Comment
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I think Collison continues to start (for the near / for-seeable future. CJ comes in next. Then Holiday gets minutes - and from that point on - whoever is playing better or maybe even the matchups on a given nite will determine who gets minutes and when, and who finishes the game. I think Nate will give Holiday the opportunity to continue to earn minutes, they're not just going to be given to him.
We'll see how the production and minutes go the next couple of games and then we'll have a better idea of what we got. He's had 2 nice games off the bench, but in those 36 minutes, he's had 3 assists, 7 fouls. Yes- he's got 10 boards in those games - which is great for a guard. Lot's of the minutes (and points) came against Utah when they were beaten, tired and ready to go home after a 5 game road trip.
I like the kid a lot. I was happy with him as the draft pick and I like what he's shown lately. If he continues to produce at this level (or close) and cleans up a few parts of his game - he's going to be a good one. Let it happen. Let things take their course. He's a rook in the NBA - it's not going to come easy to him or for him.Comment
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Whether or not he picks up from where he left off, Holiday did play in those two games like a seasoned veteran. He did not play like a rookie or even a sophomore. I am not saying it will happen again tonight...just that the way he played did not strike me as being a fluke. Jamaal Tinsley entered the NBA essentially ready...in some ways similar. But like others are saying, it's very early. As everyone here, I will have to wait it out. I would just say I have not seen a player donning a Pacer uniform that looked as ready so quickly.Comment
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BTW. There's a lot of talk about Nate Robinson. Nate wasn't a bad player, but I see more Allen Iverson is Holiday's game.Comment
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I have no idea why people are talking about 5'9", short-armed dwarf Nate Robinson. Holiday is 6'1" in shoes, with a (relative to his height) huge wingspan.
Size-wise, Holiday measures out better than Kemba Walker, who's doing just fine.
Kemba Walker, Rajon Rondo, Mike Conley, Kyle Lowry, Lou Williams, Eric Bledsoe, Terry Rozier -- all listed at 6'1" (and Chris Paul at 6'0").
Holiday will be fine.Comment
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