According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

[Will Galen]

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/

June 10, 2007
A few tidbits
Posted by Mike Wells

Mark and I go a few days without blogging and some of you put up posters around town wondering what happened to us.

Here’s some tidbits I’ve heard about the Pacers lately.

--Talked to Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh last week and he said they plan to announce former coach Rick Carlisle’s fate with the franchise sometime this week.
Walsh didn’t tip his hand which way they’re leaning, but Carlisle is expected to agree to a buyout on the final year of his contract rather than move to the front office.

Carlisle’s name continues to be mentioned for head coaching job in Seattle.

-- Maceo Baston’s agent, Mark Bartelstein, informed me that his client will probably opt out of his contract and test the free agent market this summer. Baston will be a restricted free agent.

Bartelstein didn’t rule out the possibility of Baston returning to the Pacers. He wants the opportunity to test the free agent market.

Baston is another player – Marquis Daniels is the other – that some say Carlisle didn’t use effectively last season. Baston averaged 2.9 points and 1.6 rebounds in less than nine minutes per game.

--Just like he said during the press conference to announce his hiring, coach Jim O’Brien is going around meeting with each player face-to-face, which routinely happens when a new coach is hired.

The Pacers will have a camp at Conseco Fieldhouse before taking part in the Orlando Summer League for the second straight year next month.

---The Pacers are expected to add Jay DeFruscio to the coaching staff. DeFruscio had a 311-213 record as coach of Wheeling Jesuit University in West Virginia.

DeFruscio joins a staff that will likely feature Lester Conner, Dick Harter, Frank Vogel and Dan Burke, a Carlisle holdover. There’s been some talk that Leonard Perry, who was also on Carlisle’s staff, will be back in some capacity.
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Carlise was a talking head on one of the shows on ESPN yesterday. They were talking about the San Antonio, Cleveland, finals match up. Maybe he's going to work for ESPN full time if he doesn't land the Seattle job.

I think Baston's making good move opting out with one year to go. He just turned 30 years old May 29th and he can probably get just as much money and sign a longer contract. He was due $744,000 this year according to ESPN.

There were rumors going around that the Pacers weren't going to be in a Summer league, Well's blog dispells that.

One other thing that I came up with on my own. JO can be traded to the Laker's for Bynum, Odom, a pick, and $8,324.50 in cash. The Laker's don't have to throw in another player.

That's figuring everyone's salaries this year, plus $8,324.50 in cash, and then using the 25% rule and adding $100,000. Now if the NBA adds the cash after using the 25% rule, plus $100,000, it would be different. It would cost the Laker's $10,405.

The CBA allows up to $3,000,000 to be included in trades.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#82;

82. Can cash be included as part of a trade package?

Players can be traded for cash, and cash can be included in trade packages. The amount of cash is limited to $3 million. The cash is NOT considered when matching salaries under the Traded Player exception.

In a sign-and-trade arrangement, if the contract contains a signing bonus, then any amount of this bonus paid by the signing team counts toward the $3 million limit (see question number 76).
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Only what I have bolded would apply to the rumored Pacer's-Laker's trade.

[Kegboy]

Re: According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

There’s been some talk that Leonard Perry, who was also on Carlisle’s staff, will be back in some capacity, but only if Tinsley can't be traded.

Fixed.

[sixthman]

Re: According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

Will wrote:

One other thing that I came up with on my own. JO can be traded to the Laker's for Bynum, Odom, a pick, and $8,324.50 in cash. The Laker's don't have to throw in another player.

That's figuring everyone's salaries this year, plus $8,324.50 in cash, and then using the 25% rule and adding $100,000. Now if the NBA adds the cash after using the 25% rule, plus $100,000, it would be different. It would cost the Laker's $10,405.

The CBA allows up to $3,000,000 to be included in trades.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#82;

82. Can cash be included as part of a trade package?

Players can be traded for cash, and cash can be included in trade packages. The amount of cash is limited to $3 million. The cash is NOT considered when matching salaries under the Traded Player exception.

In a sign-and-trade arrangement, if the contract contains a signing bonus, then any amount of this bonus paid by the signing team counts toward the $3 million limit (see question number 76).

Will, while cash, up to 3 mil, can be exchanged in a trade, the cash can not be used to make the salaries balance to meet CBA requirements.

The Lakers would have to send another player to Indiana, besides Bynum and Odom, to make a JO deal work.

[RWB]

Re: According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/
June 10, 2007
A few tidbits
Posted by Mike Wells

The Pacers will have a camp at Conseco Fieldhouse before taking part in the Orlando Summer League for the second straight year next month.

It would be nice if the Ps held an open practice to the public for one night. I remember when LBrown was coach they did have one evening practice open and there was a decent turnout and an opportunity to meet the players.

[Anthem]

Re: According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

The Lakers would have to send another player to Indiana, besides Bynum and Odom, to make a JO deal work.

No they wouldn't.

Jermaine makes $19,710,000.
Odom makes $13,524,000.
Bynum makes $2,172,000.

Odom+Bynum=$15,696,000.

15,696,000 x 1.25 + 100,000 (and minding order of operations) = $19,720,000.

Now that assumes that the HoopsHype numbers are correct. But if they're off, it seems just as likely to off in our favor as off against it.

[idioteque]

Re: According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

I don't like the fact that we have these RC holdovers on Obie's staff. If you're going to change the coaching personnelle, then change the whole damn thing or don't change it at all! What we were doing last year was not working. Move on!

[Will Galen]

Re: According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

Will wrote:

Will, while cash, up to 3 mil, can be exchanged in a trade, the cash can not be used to make the salaries balance to meet CBA requirements.

The Lakers would have to send another player to Indiana, besides Bynum and Odom, to make a JO deal work.

I looked for what you are saying at Larry Coon's site, but the one I quoted is the only one that mentioned cash.

Anyone know what sixthman is talking about?

[Anthem]

Re: According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

Is that this contract, last contract, or a contract before? I looked for what you are saying at Larry Coon's site, but the one I quoted is the only one that mentioned cash.

Anyone know where it says that?

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#82

Players can be traded for cash, and cash can be included in trade packages. The amount of cash is limited to $3 million. The cash is NOT considered when matching salaries under the Traded Player exception.

In a sign-and-trade arrangement, if the contract contains a signing bonus, then any amount of this bonus paid by the signing team counts toward the $3 million limit (see question number 76).

[Will Galen]

Re: According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#82

Players can be traded for cash, and cash can be included in trade packages. The amount of cash is limited to $3 million. The cash is NOT considered when matching salaries under the Traded Player exception.

In a sign-and-trade arrangement, if the contract contains a signing bonus, then any amount of this bonus paid by the signing team counts toward the $3 million limit (see question number 76).

Anthem, #82 is the one I quoted in the first post. All it is doing is specifying that cash isn't considered when matching salaries under the Traded Player exception. Neither LA or the Pacers would be using a traded player exception in the trade I outlined.

Sixthman said cash can not be used to make the salaries balance to meet CBA requirements. What I want to know is where it says that?

Since players can be traded for cash how can it be said it can't be used to make salaries match?

[RWB]

Re: According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

I don't like the fact that we have these RC holdovers on Obie's staff. If you're going to change the coaching personnelle, then change the whole damn thing or don't change it at all!

The company man never get's his throat slit.

[Anthem]

Re: According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

Anthem, #82 is the one I quoted in the first post. All it is doing is specifying that cash isn't considered when matching salaries under the Traded Player exception. Neither LA or the Pacers would be using a traded player exception in the trade I outlined.

Yes they would, because they're both over the cap.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#67

[Will Galen]

Re: According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

Yes they would, because they're both over the cap.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#67

Okay, I got it! Thanks!

[sixthman]

Re: According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

No they wouldn't.

Jermaine makes $19,710,000.
Odom makes $13,524,000.
Bynum makes $2,172,000.

Odom+Bynum=$15,696,000.

15,696,000 x 1.25 + 100,000 (and minding order of operations) = $19,720,000.

Now that assumes that the HoopsHype numbers are correct. But if they're off, it seems just as likely to off in our favor as off against it.

You are correct, but those figures are for the 2007-08 season, so the trade would need to occur in July after the draft occurs and the trade moratorium is over. It would appear that a simple Jermaine O'Neal for Bynum and Odom (and a draft pick) might work in July.

However, the same deal does not work this current year. As Will points out, it is short by a few thousand dollars.

To varify, I ran it on both the RealGM Trade Checker and the ESPN Trade Machine, both of which are still working with 06-07 salaries.

Jermaine O'Neal 18,084,000

Lamar Odom 12,348,596
Andrew Bynum 2,030,280
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14,378,876

Jermaine would need to make $18,073,595 or less to make the deal work, if the listed salaries are indeed correct.

The real point of my original post was to just not leave the impression that the inclusion of cash in the deal changed the validity of the deal. In a trade, cash counts as -0- salary, just as do unsigned draft picks.

[Naptown_Seth]

Re: According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

Anthem, #82 is the one I quoted in the first post. All it is doing is specifying that cash isn't considered when matching salaries under the Traded Player exception. Neither LA or the Pacers would be using a traded player exception in the trade I outlined.

Sixthman said cash can not be used to make the salaries balance to meet CBA requirements. What I want to know is where it says that?

Since players can be traded for cash how can it be said it can't be used to make salaries match?

Well I see you already got it, but I wrote this first and heck, maybe not everyone did get it yet...

The Traded Player Exception IS the 125%+100K.

What is commonly referred to as a Trade Exception is actually a Delayed Trade Exception, a special case in which the right to take 125% is given up in order to instead add other players up to a year later until the salaries match the 100% mark of what you traded away.

And then all the "TE" rules that go with this that don't need to be rehashed.

But the reason any of these are called EXCEPTIONS is because the basic cap says that once you are over the limit you can't increase your salary, except for these few situations where an exception to that rule has been made (like allowing you to take back 125% of what you sent out).

[Anthem]

Re: According to Mike Well's, Pacers to be in Orlando Summer league

You are correct, but those figures are for the 2007-08 season, so the trade would need to occur in July after the draft occurs and the trade moratorium is over. It would appear that a simple Jermaine O'Neal for Bynum and Odom (and a draft pick) might work in July.

Trades are frequently announced that don't actually become official until later in the summer. Draft-day trades are always like that.

It's appropriate to use the 07-08 numbers.