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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

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  • #1

    Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

    There are a few things in here that simply aren't accurate, I've put those in bold.



    http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/b...ck=1&cset=true


    From the Baltimore Sun

    Reverse layup

    The Pacers are trying to dunk a bad image, but post-brawl incidents aren't helping



    By Don Markus
    Sun reporter

    October 30, 2006

    INDIANAPOLIS -- Teams in the NBA often rebuild after losing seasons, renovating their rosters or their image and, in a few cases, both. The Indianapolis Pacers could be undergoing the biggest overhaul in the league this season, trying to win a few more games without losing any more fans.

    Beginning their 40th season this week, a team that won a franchise-record 61 games as recently as three years ago has seen its status as one of the league's elite dissolve and watched its reputation torn apart with two highly publicized incidents of antisocial behavior.

    The first came on the court two years ago, when a seemingly meaningless, macho confrontation between former Pacers forward Ron Artest and former Detroit Pistons center Ben Wallace turned into one of the ugliest brawls in sports history and turned the Pacers into the poster children for what ailed the NBA.

    The second came outside a local strip club earlier this month, when Pacers guard Stephen Jackson, a major participant in the 2004 brawl, was charged with firing his gun five times after allegedly being punched in the face and nearly run over.

    It happened while the Pacers were in the midst of training camp.

    Jackson is scheduled to have his pre-trial hearing here Wednesday, a few hours before the Pacers open the season in Charlotte, N.C. This latest spate of bad publicity has made some in this conservative Midwestern city compare the Pacers to the once-troubled Portland Trail Blazers.

    Jermaine O'Neal, who as a teenager straight out of high school played his first four seasons in Portland in what is now a 10-year career, said the derisive references made to the Indianapolis Trailpacers is more than a trifle unfair.

    "It's ridiculous," O'Neal said last week after a practice at Conseco Fieldhouse. "Things happen. As I've said before, if the iron's hot the first time and you go back and touch it the second time, then it's a problem. But if it's a situation where you learn from it and move on ... this franchise is so far from that Portland franchise, it's a joke."



    Trouble times four

    Unfortunately for the Pacers, the incident involving Jackson occurred at 3 a.m. and three of his teammates - starting point guard Jamaal Tinsley, reserve guard Marquis Daniels and rookie guard Jimmie Hunter - were with him. That incident was not the only one involving the Pacers to make the local news.

    A bag of marijuana allegedly was found in Tinsley's car that night, and police have gone as far as to see if traces of anyone's DNA can be found in or on the bag. A car registered to O'Neal - driven by someone O'Neal said he didn't know - was stopped a few days later, and some marijuana residue was found in it. O'Neal was later cleared after a friend to whom he had given the car admitted to having the marijuana. The case involving Tinsley is still pending. not true

    "You don't see anything about me winning my case," said O'Neal, who also recently saw a civil suit filed against him by the fan he punched in the Pistons' brawl thrown out. "If I had lost my case, you would have seen it all over the damn place. The fact of the matter is that a shred of marijuana was found. Somebody makes a call to Channel 6 and says, 'Jermaine O'Neal's car was found with drugs in it.'"

    Having played here for six seasons, O'Neal said he understands the responsibility he and the other Pacers have in representing the franchise.

    "That's why it's important for us to put ourselves in the best situation, because we're walking a fine line here and we've got to know now that anything we do in a negative light is going to be magnified, and rightfully so," O'Neal said. "This is the bed that we made and we have to make sure we live our life a certain way."

    If the news of Jackson's arrest was disturbing to O'Neal, imagine how longtime team president Donnie Walsh and Hall of Famer Larry Bird, the president of basketball operations, must have felt. It bothered Walsh and Bird enough to write an open letter to the fans that was published in the local newspaper, saying the team was embarrassed by the incident involving Jackson and the others. did I miss this

    Artest is gone - he was traded to the Sacramento Kings last season - but Walsh said fans in this basketball-rich city are getting tired of his team's remaining bad actors.

    "I know that the way we played [last season] and in some instances the way we acted would turn people off. It would turn me off," said Walsh, who has run the team for 20 years and whose picture is on the team's media guide as a tribute. "[The letter] was just an attempt to let them know that it's not going to happen [again]."

    Sitting in a downtown mall one afternoon last week - a mall owned by longtime Pacers owner Herb Simon - retired banker Norm Hatch said he has always preferred college basketball over the NBA but the latest trouble involving Jackson could be the tipping point for some die-hard Pacers fans he knows.

    "I think the community in general is just disappointed," Hatch said. "The organization has always been a first-class organization. I think what went on in Detroit and now this tarnished the reputation."

    Natalie Wooley, a 21-year-old pastry chef, had a different viewpoint.

    "When it comes to athletes, most of them are young and they have a lot of money and they don't know how to act," Wooley said. "A lot of money usually messes up actors, basketball players, politicians. It doesn't affect my vision of the Pacers. We all make mistakes."



    Carlisle stays course

    Pacers coach Rick Carlisle seems confident fans will still come to Conseco - one of the nicest arenas in the NBA - as long as his team plays hard and is reasonably successful. He recalled how the attendance actually went up after the brawl with the Pistons and how the city rallied around a team that eventually won 44 games, then made the second round of the playoffs.

    "A lot of fans would bail after a team went through what we went through that year," said Carlisle, who was an assistant in Portland when that franchise had some of its off-court problems. "Last year was more about injuries and post-brawl hangover. Larry and Donnie felt that the team needed to be changed significantly without altering the core, and they were able to do that. That's tough to do."

    Partly because their lucrative contracts made them untradable, Jackson and Tinsley were kept along with O'Neal, as well as promising second-year players Danny Granger and Sarunas Jasikevicius, the former European star who played at Maryland.



    Change for better

    The Pacers also brought back forward Al Harrington, who played six years here out of high school and spent the past two seasons in Atlanta, and added well-respected veteran guard Darrell Armstrong; they also signed or traded for a slew of younger, more athletic players than they had before, including Daniels.

    It has, at least at the start of the season, made for a happier locker room not shattered by cliques, as happened last season.

    "I can't reiterate enough how much different things are this year," said O'Neal, who missed large chunks of the past two seasons because of injury as well as the 15-game suspension he served after the brawl. "This team is a different team. Everyone's happy all the time; you feel good about going to the gym. We didn't feel that way the last two years. If you don't like each other, it's tough to win."

    Carlisle sounds excited by the challenge.

    "This job is about problem solving, trying to figure out how to score more points than a team that's a really good team, trying to work through injury, through personal crisis that happened through the course of a basketball life," Carlisle said. "I know it as well or better than anyone else. I always feel like we'll get through anything and ultimately we'll be stronger for it."


    don.markus@baltsun.com
    Copyright © 2006, The Baltimore Sun |
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

    I think they're imagining that letter

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

      Yeah that letter is um pending possibly.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

        This writer is looking for a job with the enquirer it seems, it's very hard to fiund anything that is factually right, most of it is innuendo
        So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

        If you've done 6 impossible things today?
        Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

          I'm posting this article because I enjoyed reading it. Yes, it is our good friend Sam Smith, but he's entertaining. You mioght want to read the whole thing because JO is mentioned at the very end


          http://chicagosports.chicagotribune....home-headlines


          Knicks' Thomas on the spot
          One of at least 12 coaches whose job security seems to be extremely tenuous
          Sam Smith
          On Pro Basketball

          October 30, 2006

          The NBA season opens Tuesday with at least a dozen coaches on the hot seat, though perhaps none more so than New York's Isiah Thomas, who replaced Larry Brown with a mandate to improve or leave.

          "Every coach will tell you he is on the hot seat," says Thomas, "but I guarantee you mine gets the most attention."

          Never—again—will so much be written about a team with so little chance to win a championship. The Knicks do appear to be at least a legitimate threat to make the playoffs because Thomas is doing what Brown refused to do and is coaching to his players' strengths. If that doesn't work, it will mean Thomas got the wrong players as GM, which is possible. But scouts who have seen the Knicks say Thomas is using Eddy Curry much more effectively by facing him toward the basket, which Brown didn't do, and giving Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury freedom to drive.

          The Knicks have a tough opening road schedule, and Thomas says the priority is for the team to weather it and not give in to the hysteria if the team starts below .500 early. "We have to stay mentally healthy," Thomas says.

          "I'm not looking for fights," Thomas says with a laugh. "I don't try to get in these situations, but it seems I always end up in these tough spots. I don't go looking for it. I was supposed to be just getting off vacation and coming in to ask Larry how everything was going."

          Here are some of Thomas' peers who could have a short season:

          Mike Woodson, Atlanta: How many seasons can they be this bad? New ownership looms, which would clear out everyone.

          Doc Rivers, Boston: An expiring contract and likely non-playoff team could send him back to TV work.

          Bernie Bickerstaff, Charlotte: He's not Michael Jordan's coach and the community won't put up with many more 20-some win seasons.

          Flip Saunders, Detroit: This is just his second season, but if he can't handle Rasheed Wallace the whole thing could collapse.

          Jeff Van Gundy, Houston: Working for a new general manager, Van Gundy has a healthy team that better contend—or else.

          Mike Fratello, Memphis: New ownership is likely, and with injuries the Grizzlies could be at the bottom of the West.

          Terry Stotts, Milwaukee: The Bucks collapsed at the end of last season, and they've had injuries already this season.

          Dwane Casey, Minnesota: If Kevin Garnett misses the playoffs for a third straight season, someone has to take the fall.

          Maurice Cheeks, Philadelphia: The owners already ran out the hockey staff after a poor start, and the 76ers don't look organized.

          Bob Hill, Seattle: Team President Wally Walker already is gone with new owners coming in. Plus this team isn't picked to make the playoffs.

          Sam Mitchell, Toronto: A new general manager and higher expectations are a bad combination.

          Stern can't win

          This may be the ultimate proof that nothing the NBA does will ever be right to some. On his annual preseason conference call with media last week, Commissioner David Stern opined that players roaming the streets with guns—for example, Indiana's Stephen Jackson—isn't a good thing. It's not like Stern advocated banning guns for hunting or in players' homes for their protection. Yet a Los Angeles Times sports columnist argued Stern was getting too involved in players' lives.

          Meantime, Jackson suggested he won't stop carrying his licensed handgun despite his involvement in a shooting incident outside an Indianapolis strip club. No word yet on whether Jackson is planning to form a militia as the Founding Fathers apparently hoped he would some day.

          Sowing seeds of trouble

          The NBA fixed its playoff seeding so the teams with the two best records won't meet before the conference finals. (That happened when the Mavericks and Spurs played in the second round last season.) The league didn't fix this issue: a division winner could have the ninth-best record in the conference but still make the playoffs and get one of the top four seeds. Said league Vice President Stu Jackson: "I would say the chances are very rare for it to happen, but we may look at changing that."

          Hoiberg's second career

          Fred Hoiberg, who had to retire because of a heart ailment that required a pacemaker, said he'll probably need surgery again in the next three years to repair a heart valve. But he adds that his health is good and he is enjoying working the other side of the business as Minnesota's new assistant general manager. Hoiberg's story serves as a good example of how quickly the game can be taken away and he has talked with the players about that. Hoiberg said the addition of Mike James has given the Timberwolves a Sam Cassell-like player to relieve pressure on Garnett. Second-round pick Craig Smith thus far has been drawing the local headlines over highly touted Randy Foye.

          Wasted days and picks

          The Clippers have declined to pick up the fourth-year option on lottery selection Yaroslav Korolev. … Also in the department of wasted draft picks, Orlando's J.J. Redick, considered by most a stretch at No. 11, is headed for the injured list and far down the roster when he returns. It was last year that the Magic used another No. 11 pick for Fran Vazquez, who hasn't come to the NBA. That said, Dwight Howard is looking like an awfully good call at No. 1 over the struggling Emeka Okafor. … Smartest college backcourt ever? Sam Vincent, who ran shotgun for Scott Skiles' frenzied attack at Michigan State, is now an assistant with the Mavs. … The Nets brought in Yankees closer Mariano Rivera for a motivational talk. What, no A-Rod? … Less than a year after moving his wife and four children to Australia to take a coaching job, former Cavs star Mark Price was fired after his team started 0-5. … In Charlotte camp, Bickerstaff has saved the most praise for Othella Harrington. Uh-oh. … Interesting dance playing out in Phoenix, where Amare Stoudemire said he doubted the team's faith in him and then met with owner Robert Sarver, who said of his $100 million player: "He complements us, but the team isn't depending on him for success." Stoudemire, saying he still has knee pain, now is saying he looks forward to coming off the bench. Watch that space for more.

          Double dribbles

          It appears J.R. Smith, whom the Bulls dispatched quickly to Denver after getting him in the Tyson Chandler deal, may start at shooting guard. Smith said he needs to work on getting to practice earlier. "I'm not really a morning person," he said. The Nuggets are high on a pair of international prospects, Yakhouba Diawara from France and Pepperdine forward Linas Kleiza of Lithuania. … Another player tough on the announcers who seems to have wrapped up a Trail Blazers roster spot is 29-year-old Ime Udoka, a Portland native. … A humbled Michael Olowokandi, who made the Celtics, said: "I see my role to help out the team when guys are down and, during practice, to battle guys and to help prepare them." The Clippers' former No. 1 overall pick in the draft washed out after years of demanding to shoot and underachieving on defense and at rebounding. … Tough break for Atlanta's Marvin Williams, last year's No. 2 overall pick, who was looking good in preseason. He broke a finger and could be out two months. … There are those who maintain that owners constantly berating referees is a bigger embarrassment to the NBA than some troublesome players, and a movement is afoot to finally limit their behavior. … In their home opener Friday, the Bulls get Ron Artest in his first game against Ben Wallace since the infamous brawl in Auburn Hills. The Kings are beat up with Mike Bibby likely still out with a thumb injury and Brad Miller slowed with injuries.

          Last shots

          The NBA is using a new plus-minus stat this season, one that showed Miami's best lineup in the Finals was when Alonzo Mourning played instead of Shaquille O'Neal. … A day after being named starting center, Seattle center Robert Swift went out for the season with a knee injury. Rookie Mouhamed Sene may start. Even though the team president resigned, it appears Sonics general manager Rick Sund, one of the best in the business, will remain. … Jalen Rose appears to be heading the Tim Thomas route with a buyout in his final season in New York. … The Clippers' Elton Brand denied team requests that he take time off in the exhibition season after playing for USA Basketball last summer. Said Brand: "We could be really good, we could be great, but it all starts with what you do now. You can't expect to be one of the best teams unless you're going to put in the work." Meanwhile, an unusually large number of top players have sat out exhibition games despite not being injured. Stu Jackson says the league is monitoring the issue. … Kevin Ollie, whose 10-year journeyman odyssey included a stop in Chicago, may open at point guard for the 76ers with Allen Iverson at shooting guard again. "It would have been gratifying to be the 12th man coming off the bench because I'm still in the NBA doing something I love to do," Ollie said. … Jamal Magloire, angling for a big contract after the season, has been miserable with Portland. Former Blazers guard Damon Stoudamire is telling friends that the steal of the year was the Bulls' pickup of Viktor Khryapa as a draft deal throw-in. He apparently thought Khryapa was lost in the undisciplined environment. … The Spurs' Gregg Popovich applauds the league's crackdown on on-court behavior: "It isn't like you invented the light bulb just because you dunked over somebody."

          Final word

          Though it's not part of the NBA's advertising campaign, it's widely known around the league office that North Korean leader Kim Jong Il is an avid NBA fan with a preference for the Bulls. His sons have been spotted wearing Bulls jerseys on their regulation courts at the presidential palace.

          SAM'S FIVE STARS WHO CHANGE ADDRESSES DURING THIS SEASON

          1. Ray Allen, Seattle
          He says he wants to stay, but he's 31. If the Sonics falter, new ownership could blow things up and start again, especially if it can't get a new arena.

          2. Allen Iverson, Philadelphia
          He says Philadelphia is all he knows, but the 76ers tried to trade him last spring.Who knows what happens if general manager Billy King is ousted because of a bad start?

          3. Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
          Coach Dwane Casey says, "The window has not closed for Kevin."But Garnett has clocked more than 32,000 minutes. If the Timberwolves don't go somewhere soon, he could.

          4. Paul Pierce, Boston
          The Celtics want to run and he's best in the half-court game. It could be time to cash in for some youth.

          5. Jermaine O'Neal, Indiana
          This is another team with low projections that needs to start well or consider whether it's time to rebuild by offering its most valuable piece.

          sasmith@tribune.com

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          • #6
            Re: Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

            Sam is really pushing for a JO trade. I think that he really wants to be able to say that he called it first.
            Slug 'em Sabres!!!!!
            http://youtube.com/watch?v=cj1SUF4wzu0

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            • #7
              Re: Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

              Sam was the major media voice calling for a Jalen Rose to Chicago for Brad Miller trade too. Ron Artest was hardly a consideration then in the media. Sam got his way on that one.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

                Originally posted by sixthman View Post
                Sam was the major media voice calling for a Jalen Rose to Chicago for Brad Miller trade too. Ron Artest was hardly a consideration then in the media. Sam got his way on that one.
                I like Jermaine a lot, but there are plenty of trades I'd do with Chicago.

                None of them are possible, though, because Chicago doesn't have the salaries to make a trade.
                This space for rent.

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                • #9
                  Re: Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

                  Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                  There are a few things in here that simply aren't accurate, I've put those in bold.

                  The first came on the court two years ago, when a seemingly meaningless, macho confrontation between former Pacers forward Ron Artest and former Detroit Pistons center Ben Wallace turned into one of the ugliest brawls in AMERICAN sports history and turned the Pacers into the poster children for what ailed the NBA.

                  |
                  This one needs to be clarified as well. I'm sure some of our European friends can give examples of some brawls that made this one seem like a game of tag.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

                    There are only like 2-3 players I would trade JO for.

                    Who is Baltimore's team again? Oh yeah they don't have one, so why the hell do they even care. I think they are still bitter against Indianapolis for taking their football team.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

                      If Ron,JO and Jack went into the crowd in Europe, they wouldnt have come out of the crowd alive.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

                        JO didn't go into the crowd. He just had to wait for the idiot to come to him.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

                          Yeah that was my bad.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

                            Originally posted by SycamoreKen View Post
                            This one needs to be clarified as well. I'm sure some of our European friends can give examples of some brawls that made this one seem like a game of tag.
                            Forget that, MLB has a healthy bag of riots, even involving fans vs players, that easily matched or surpassed the Palace riot.
                            10 cent beer night, disco night, fan steals Dodger players cap at Wrigley.
                            Here's a list at SI.com of some of these and other fun fan interactions. I'm going with Seles getting stabbed as a lot worse than the Palace thing. Heck, for violence by players I'd call the Knicks-Heat brawl much worse, though no fans involved there.


                            I'm getting sick of it to tell the truth. It's hype that has turned into truth somehow.


                            And get back to us when fans scream "N***ER" and throw FLARES at players on the field. That's all Euro right there, and not ancient history either.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Pacers reputation is not good - article out of Baltimore

                              If we did put JO on the market I wonder who would be interested? I mean that in a realistic sense- Who'd have the fortitude to do what's necessary to take on his salary and want him badly enough to do what it would take (regardless of what they'd have to offer the Pacers)?

                              -Bball
                              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                              ------

                              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                              -John Wooden

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