The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

    TOWARD ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


    Game Time Start: 7:30 PM ET
    Where: The Fieldhouse, Indianapolis, IN
    Officials: James Capers, Bennie Adams, Rodney Mott (Mark Lindsay)

    Media Notes: Indiana Notes, Toronto Notes
    Television: NBATV / SportsNet One
    Radio: WFNI 1070 AM, 107.5 FM / CJCL 590, 1050 AM
    NBA Feeds:

    REMINDER: Per PD policy, please do not share a link to, describe how to search for, request a link to, or request a PM about streaming video of a NBA game that is not coming directly through the NBA. Not even in a "wink-wink, nudge-nudge, know-what-I-mean" round-about sort of way. Thank you

    Home: 26-15
    Away: 24-17
    Apr 23
    Apr 26
    Apr 29
    May 01
    T B D
    If Needed
    If Needed


    Ian Mahinmi - back (questionable)

    None reported

    How the Pacers may adjust to Jonas Valanciunas
    Blake Murphy

    The primary talking point coming out of Game 2 has been the dominance of Jonas Valanciunas.
    While he battled foul trouble in Game 1 and struggled to finish chip-ins around the rim, he was a
    force while on the floor, setting a Raptors franchise record for postseason rebounds in just 21
    minutes of action. He avoided that foul trouble in Game 2 and spent 31 minutes wreaking havoc
    as a result.

    All told, through two games, Valanciunas has 35 points and 34 rebounds in just 52 minutes,
    shooting 14-of-32 and swatting away three shots, a number that doesn’t really do the job he’s
    done as a help defender justice. He’s been great, and the fact that the Raptors have been
    outscored by six points with him on the floor has little to do with his individual play. With
    Valanciunas on the floor, the Raptors are grabbing 52.6 percent of available rebounds, seeing a
    spike at both ends, and his finishing in Game 2 was paramount to the team’s strong early play.

    The Raptors are fully expecting the Pacers to adjust for Game 3, and Valanciunas and company
    are ready for the counters they may need to make as a result.

    How, specifically, the Pacers adjust could go a number of different ways. Here are a few options
    and what they would mean for the Raptors.

    Send weakside help on the dive

    This one’s pretty straightforward, and it’s something a few teams do to muck up the Raptors
    pick-and-roll actions when Valanciunas shares the floor with Luis Scola. Basically, instead of
    guarding a Kyle Lowry-Valanciunas pick-and-roll with just their two primary checks or sending
    strongside help (something no team wants to do), the Pacers can continue to show pressure on
    the ball-handler (Lowry, or even DeMar DeRozan), then send a third body from the weak wing to
    bump Valanciunas on the dive.

    Despite shooting well from outside this year, opponents still treat Scola as a non-shooter, daring
    him to make them pay in order to snuff out higher-EV parts of the Toronto offense. In what’s
    been a funny twist to start games, Scola and Lavoy Allen have been taking turns completely
    abandoning each other to help in this way.

    As 8 Points, 9 Seconds points out, though, this isn’t a very Frank Vogel thing to do, and their
    bigs are inexperienced with it. (Ditto for dropping under screens on Lowry/Cory Joseph, which
    they cover in more detail.)


    It’s a reasonable gamble for the defense, and it’s yet another reason to start Patrick Patterson
    at the power forward spot. It’s not a knock on Scola, who has been solid so far in the series and
    brings a ton to the team from a leadership perspective, but a Patterson-Valanciunas duo has
    long made more sense on paper, and the numbers have bore it out emphatically this season.
    Personally, I’d shift DeMarre Carroll back to the bench and deploy him as the backup at both
    forward spots until he looks up to the Paul George assignment, starting Patterson and Norman
    Powell in the process. (I realize that’s a detraction from my suggested Game 2 adjustment of
    starting Carroll, but I expected Carroll to look better than he did, and I also suggested it
    assuming Dwane Casey wouldn’t make the Scola-Patterson swap. One of Carroll or Patterson
    has to start, basically. Or both.)

    If changing the starting lineup after a win seems strange, this is the playoffs. Closing out a game
    with DeRozan was strange, too. You have to be proactive, and ensuring there’s nobody the Pacers
    can comfortably cheat off of on the weak side of the floor will prevent them from over-helping the
    Raptors’ initial actions involving Valanciunas.

    Patterson’s also just been one of the team’s most important players and should be playing 35
    minutes in this series, something that’s tough to do if he comes off the bench.

    Go small

    Valanciunas got in foul trouble in Game 1 in part because of GAHHH CONSPIRACY SCOTT FOSTER
    RABBLE but also in part because of Myles Turner. Going smaller could make things tougher on
    Valanciunas defensively, requiring him to come out a little further from the rim and contest
    jumpers, then recover back in help. He’s gotten better at that this season, and the Pacers don’t
    have bigs who can extend beyond long twos, so it might be tenable. The Pacers might have to
    start Turner, anyway, if Ian Mahinmi (back) can’t go (more on this in a second).

    That might also let them...CONTINUE READING AT RAPTORS REPUBLIC

    The Pacers Big Problem: Jonas Valanciunas
    William Furr

    The Indiana Pacers are leaving Toronto tied at 1 game apiece — but they have a long, uphill
    road ahead.

    In a series many predicted to be a sweep, the Indiana Pacers have put the Raptors on their
    heels repeatedly.

    All-Star DeMar DeRozan looked absolutely broken while not playing a single minute in the 4th
    quarter, and will probably have nightmares about Paul George waiting around every corner in
    his house. Kyle Lowry looks like Solomon Hill shooting from deep, and DeMarre Carroll has done
    almost nothing useful through two games.

    The Pacers have many reasons to feel confident heading back to Indianapolis. They now have
    home-court advantage and only have to hold serve in the friendly confines of The Fieldhouse to
    take the series.

    However, the Pacers have a problem. A rather large problem. A 7-foot-tall, 255-pound problem
    to be exact.

    His name is Jonas Valanciunas.

    Through two games, Valanciunas is eviscerating the Pacers. He’s averaging 17.5 points and 17
    rebounds in just 26 minutes per contest. Contrast that to Ian Mahinmi’s 3 points and 4
    rebounds, and the magnitude of the problem becomes known.

    The only reprieve the Pacers have gotten from JV has been foul trouble. He fouled out of Game
    1, and spent some quality time on the pine in Game 2 with fouls as well. The Pacers won’t win
    this series by giving up 17 and 17 to the Raptors third best player, and might not even win
    another game that way. They have to find a way to slow the big man’s roll in order to stay
    competitive moving forward.

    Stopping Jonas Valanciunas After the Pick and Roll

    The Raptors have run the same play, over and over and over again, to expose the Pacers
    defense. The play starts with a high screen and roll, sometimes set by Valanciunas,
    sometimes not, leading into a screen by Valanciunas while the paint is devoid of Pacers

    The Pacers big man in this situation — usually Ian Mahinmi or Myles Turner — is left on an
    island. As George Hill/Monta Ellis trail the play after going over the screen, the big man has a
    decision to make. They must either step up, stop the guard penetration, and rely on to slow
    down a rolling JV, or sag back and try to guard both the rolling big and the attacking guard.

    Frank Vogel’s team defense has been built on conservative play from his big men. Roy Hibbert
    and Ian Mahinmi traditionally drop back when defending the screener, giving up the midrange
    jumper and relying on their length (and backside help defense) to cover the rolling big man.
    But the Raptors have done a phenomenal job of pulling all the help defenders away from the
    basket, leaving Ian and Myles Turner exposed in space.

    Jonas Valanciunas has lived on a steady diet of lobs, alley oops, and easy rebounds. He has
    often found himself with only empty lane between himself and the basket, while Mahinmi/
    Turner and helplessly sealed behind him and Monta Ellis crashing down too late to be useful.
    The Raptors have identified this and are running it over and over again, as long as they can
    keep JV on the floor.

    The Pacers have to adjust moving forward. There are a few ways they can do this. None are
    appealing, but they can’t continue to give Valanciunas whatever he wants at the rim.

    Option 1: Trap the Ball Handler and Rotate in Advance

    This option would be decidedly anti-Frank Vogel in process. It would involve Mahinmi and
    Turner hedging hard as Valanciunas sets the screen, and keeping their hands high to block
    the passing lanes. As the big man bodies up the attacking Raptor, the trailing Pacers guard
    traps from behind. The weak side defender drops to the basket, and Toronto is forced to
    kick the ball back out behind the arc.

    Pros: This would almost certainly...CONTINUE READING AT 8p9s

    Candace Buckner @CandaceDBuckner
    Jared Wade @8pts9secs
    Tim Donahue @TimDonahue8p9s
    Tom Lewis @indycornrows
    Ian Levy @HickoryHigh
    Whitney @its_whitney

    Doug Smith @SmithRaps
    Holly MacKenzie @stackmack
    Sam Holako @RapsFan
    Adam Francis @raptorshq
    Joseph Casciaro @JosephCasciaro
    Blake Murphy @BlakeMurphyODC

    This is the darkest timeline.

  • #2
    Re: 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

    Pressure's on us to protect our home court. Question is: Will Paul George get any help tonight?


    • #3
      Re: 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

      Pacers gonna win tonite!


      • #4
        Re: 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

        Toronto... that's one huge cRaptor.

        cRap city
        "I have never taken the high road, but I tell other people to ’cause then there’s more room for me on the low road."


        • #5
          Re: 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

          Manhimi is clearly injured:

          Mahinmi, who is listed as questionable, did his best to downplay his injury, to dissuade the idea that he could miss Thursday’s game. But if Mahinmi’s back continues to sap his athleticism – he has missed all eight of his shot attempts in the series – his inability to score and defend could significantly damage the Pacers’ chances of upsetting the Raptors.After the Pacers’ practice, Mahinmi shared how he will prepare for Thursday’s game. He said he would exchange text messages from someone on the training staff every two hours to explain how he is feeling when outside of the arena. He also planned on doing multiple stretches throughout Wednesday night and during Thursday afternoon to alleviate the pain and soreness in his back.
          Mahinmi was asked if he would receive a Cortisone shot before Thursday’s game to ensure he could play.
          “I wish I could help you on that question,” he said. “No comment.”
          He'll most likely play, but still sucks as when he is solid he does give a Pacers a real good body.


          • #6
            Re: 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

            Time for the bench to get their **** together.


            • #7
              Re: 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

              Do you remember the Atlanta series in '14? Do you remember what Mike Scott did to use in that game 5? Someone from our bench needs to do that tonight. Someone has to become our Mike Scott. I don't care if it's CJ, Solo, Ty or Stuckey. I only know that we need someone from our bench to go off tonight.
              Originally posted by IrishPacer
              Empty vessels make the most noise.


              • #8
                Re: 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

                As I said in another thread, Raptor fans were worried about Turner. They said JV really struggles to guard bigs are are able to shoot the ball. JV is destroying our entire front line as it is, may as well go with the one guy who COULD give him some problems.

                Problem is, for this strategy to work, we'd have to play the PnR game with Turner, something only Ty Lawson and Joe Young seem to be willing to do.


                • #9
                  Re: 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

                  The other thing is to start Hill over Allen. Hill's offensive game has not been present during this series, but Scola can't guard him on the perimeter and it could be something we could take advantage of.


                  • #10
                    Re: 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

                    Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                    Do you remember the Atlanta series in '14? Do you remember what Mike Scott did to use in that game 5? Someone from our bench needs to do that tonight. Someone has to become our Mike Scott. I don't care if it's CJ, Solo, Ty or Stuckey. I only know that we need someone from our bench to go off tonight.
                    you mean you want somebody to show boat up and down the floor riding a fake horse cause he knocked down a few shots in a row?
                    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.


                    • #11
                      Re: 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

                      So ready for this game.

                      Blow their doors off.
                      "I have never taken the high road, but I tell other people to ’cause then there’s more room for me on the low road."


                      • #12
                        Re: 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors


                        "I have never taken the high road, but I tell other people to ’cause then there’s more room for me on the low road."


                        • #13
                          Re: 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

                          I'm going to PAX East this weekend and my flight leaves at 5 AM...but I'm still going to stay up for the game. They better win haha.


                          • #14
                            Re: 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

                            Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
                            you mean you want somebody to show boat up and down the floor riding a fake horse cause he knocked down a few shots in a row?
                            No. I want somebody to score 17 points off the bench, though.
                            Originally posted by IrishPacer
                            Empty vessels make the most noise.


                            • #15
                              Re: 4/21/2016 NBA Playoffs, First Round - Game Thread #3: Pacers Vs. Raptors

                              3 hrs
                              "I have never taken the high road, but I tell other people to ’cause then there’s more room for me on the low road."