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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

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  • #1

    11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

    MAHINBERT


    -VS-


    Game Time Start: 9:30 PM EST
    Where: STAPLES Center, Los Angeles, CA
    Officials: Ken Mauer, Marat Kogut, Gary Zielinski

    Media Notes: Indiana Notes, Los Angeles Notes
    Television: NBATV / FOX Sports Indiana / TWC SportsNet, TWC Deportes
    Radio: WFNI 1070 AM, 107.5 FM / KSPN 710 AM, KCOR 1350 AM
    NBA Feeds:

    REMINDER: Per PD policy, please do not share a link to, describe how to search for, request a link to, or request a PM about streaming video of a NBA game that is not coming directly through the NBA. Not even in a "wink-wink, nudge-nudge, know-what-I-mean" round-about sort of way. Thank you
    10-5
    Away: 4-3
    West: 1-2
    2-13
    Home: 1-5
    East: 2-4
    Dec 02
    Dec 03
    Dec 05
    Dec 08
    10:30pm
    10:00pm
    9:00pm
    7:00pm

    MAHINMI
    MILES
    GEORGE
    ELLIS
    HILL
    HIBBERT
    RANDLE
    BRYANT
    CLARKSON
    RUSSELL


    PACERS
    Jordan Hill - back (questionable)
    Myles Turner - thumb (out)


    LAKERS
    Kobe Bryant - substantive negative outcome (questionable)
    Lou Williams - personal reasons (out)



    Is Monta Ellis Still a Bad Defensive Player?
    Jon Washburn

    A quick google search of “Monta Ellis Bad Defender” will turn up a host of interesting web pages.
    The very first link sends you to 2014’s annual feature by Tim Kawakami naming the “All NBA No-
    Defense Teams    ” in which Monta lands an “Honorable Mention” spot on the dubious squad. The
    second link finds you reading a fascinating rebuttal on NBA Reddit titled, “Why do people think
    Monta Ellis is a terrible defender?    ”

    Both posts are mostly reliant on the good old fashioned “eye test” with a few hard-to-
    contextualize stats thrown in, supposedly offering some measure of argumentative support.
    Kawakami notes that in 2014, the 37-year-old Vince Carter was statistically better defensively
    than Monta Ellis. The blogger on NBA Reddit argued that according to the NBA’s Player Tracking
    stats, Ellis was an above average defensive player in every single defensive metric he qualified
    for except for hand-offs and off-screen defense.

    The thread underneath led to perhaps one of my favorite NBA Reddit comments ever by some
    Mavericks fan named sbeaty:
    I love Monta and I will admit he he isn’t AS BAD as people think or say on
    defense. That being said Monta goes rogue way [too] much. He constantly
    runs to where the [ball] is or goes for steals. He throws off the defense and
    [puts] us into bad rotations.

    Monta reminds me of an A.D.D kid chasing a butterfly. He wants that butterfly
    so damn much.

    Go get your butterfly Monta!

    Evaluating an individual player’s defense solely through statistics is imperfect at best.
    Obviously, a simple look at steals and blocks will tell very little. Even the advanced individual
    defensive stats are incredibly hard to quantify. Defensive win shares, Defensive Rating, and
    Defensive Box Plus/Minus all tell us some interesting things, and a quick look at the league
    leaders     in those categories reveal that they have to at least be doing something right, but it’s
    hard to really define what those numbers actually mean. Player tracking data is useful,
    especially for evaluating how well big men protect the rim, but even SportVu has flaws –
    namely that it can’t really contextualize whether a player is competing against starters, bench
    players, or mop up guys.

    Further, every team employs a specific defensive strategy meant to maximize it’s overall
    defensive output. Defensive players that are tasked with defending the other team’s best
    player every night will inevitably give up more points than their teammates. Other guys have
    larger offensive loads and are asked by their coaches to conserve some energy on the
    defensive end.

    Indeed, our fearless leader, Jared Wade, had this to say about Individual Defensive Rating: “I
    honestly don’t know what individual defensive rating is. I mean, yeah, I know what it is. I just
    have never gained a lot of insight from it. It just doesn’t have context or much real value in
    and of itself to me. When someone tells me a guy’s defensive rating, it’s like saying ‘My house
    is 9 away from the school.’ 9 what? Miles? Blocks? Houses? Feet?”

    All of these factors generally lead us to our current, flawed evaluation process that we employ
    when judging an individual’s defense:

    EYE TEST

    plus

    ONE OR TWO AMBIGUOUS DEFENSIVE METRICS

    divided by

    GENERAL OVERALL PUBLIC PERCEPTION

    equals

    “REALITY”

    Still, most NBA guys can generally differentiate between good and bad defensive players, and
    for the entirety of his career, Monta Ellis has generally been perceived as a bad defensive
    player. When you don’t get to watch a player every night, preconceived notions will dominate
    how you feel about him when you do get to watch him. Often, these presuppositions are spot
    on and helpful, but occasionally...CONTINUE READING 8p9s
    The humbling of Kobe Bryant has been shocking to witness


    While poor play and bad statistics in the face of modest expectations are jarring developments,
    it's Kobe's humility that's been truly surprising

    Kobe Bryant has rarely looked this mortal.

    Even as an 18-year-old, No. 8 didn't flinch when asked to throw down in a dunk contest with
    just two career starts under his belt.

    Even as a slightly-older 18-year-old, the soon-to-be Black Mamba kept shooting despite air ball
    after air ball versus the Utah Jazz in the playoffs.

    Even as a precocious 20-something, Kobe didn't fear the backlash of criticizing his superstar
    teammate Shaquille O'Neal, nor the demands to share the ball more from his six-time champion
    coach Phil Jackson.

    Even after allegations of sexual assault, breaking a championship contender up and chasing a
    future Hall of Fame coach out of town, Bryant apologized for nothing and kept playing his way.

    Even when the Boston Celtics physically abused his team into title submission, the newly minted
    No. 24 acknowledged his shortcomings, but defiantly promised to toughen up his squad.

    And even as the dream team with Dwight Howard, Steve Nash and Pau Gasol saw their shaky
    foundations crumbling beneath them, KB pushed his body to the breaking point and even as he
    faltered, vowed that this wouldn't be the end.

    And now, here we are. On the precipice of what could be -- what should be -- his final season,
    the Lakers icon is facing adversity once again.

    Kobe has never looked this out of sorts. Even as a teenage rookie, Bryant was unpolished and
    foolhardy, but his explosive athleticism could propel him past his youthful limitations. He
    overcame rolled ankles, broken fingers and balky knees, compensating with unbelievable
    footwork, excellent ball-handling and uncanny dexterity as the years piled on. He modified his
    game as his quickness and agility faded, becoming one of the deadliest post players in the
    league as well as a marksman of a mid-range shooter. Bryant took what would could only be
    considered lottery-bound teams and transformed them into playoff contenders, then those
    playoff contenders into championship hopefuls and then finally mere NBA Finalists to two-time
    titlists.

    Injuries over the past three years have brought us to this, his 20th year in the league. And it
    hasn't been great.

    This has been Kobe's worst season, there's no doubt about that. Statistically, he's registering
    career lows across the board, and laughably so. Defensively, he's a shadow of even the player
    of the past several seasons, when Bryant had been jokingly referred to as a "designated hitter-
    type" on that end of the floor. He provides less value to his team than almost any guard in the
    league, detracting from the aforementioned defense, but also as an offensive player taking up
    valuable usage with abysmal shooting. However, nothing feels as shocking as simply watching
    him play.

    Bryant looks like a slow motion version of himself, but it's not the laws of both space and time
    that are being violated, but rather the memories of the former assassin we've seen for most of
    the past two decades. The Mamba is so physically depleted just about all of his shots are falling
    flat and short. It's a combination of a complete lack of lift and an inability to create any
    separation from his defender. There's no explosion in his first step, resulting in what could be
    his worst free-throw rate over a whole season since his rookie year.

    In short? Kobe doesn't look like an NBA player on most possessions.

    Watching such a historically great...CONTINUE READING SILVER SCREEN AND ROLL


    Pacers
    Candace Buckner @CandaceDBuckner
    Nate Taylor @ByNateTaylor
    Jared Wade @8pts9secs
    Tim Donahue @TimDonahue8p9s
    Tom Lewis @indycornrows
    Whitney @its_whitney

    Lakers
    Mike Trudell @LakersReporter
    Mike Bresnahan @Mike_Bresnahan
    Dave McMenamin @mcten
    Darius Soriano @forumbluegold
    Drew Garrison @DrewGarrisonSBN
    Aunt Dee Dee @SoCalGal64
    This is the darkest timeline.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: 11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

    Don't lose this one ya dopes.


    Comment

    • #3
      Re: 11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

      The Blazers played last night in Portland. Given how bad they have been we should win this game.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: 11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

        Another game to hang around 120 points? I'm all for it.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: 11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

          Washburn's article about Monta's defense and how the so-called eye-test can skews one's perception is really interesting.

          Great job, ATC.
          Originally posted by IrishPacer
          Empty vessels make the most noise.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: 11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

            Gotta admit there is a part of me that wants Ian to posterize the **** out of big Roy

            Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: 11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

              It's going to be so nice watching Roy Hibbert on the floor not in a Pacers jersey. God he's so bad.

              What's OU on how many times he's on the floor tonight? I'll set it at 3.5 and take the Over. Calling 4 times.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: 11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

                Originally posted by PaulGeorgeHill View Post
                Gotta admit there is a part of me that wants Ian to posterize the **** out of big Roy

                Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
                Weird, I want Hibbert to play really well.

                Won't matter, we'll still win big.


                Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: 11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

                  Originally posted by docpaul View Post
                  Weird, I want Hibbert to play really well.

                  Won't matter, we'll still win big.
                  Unfortunately, not everyone thinks like you do.
                  Originally posted by IrishPacer
                  Empty vessels make the most noise.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: 11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

                    Kobe Bryant just announced his retirement at the end of the season. Should be emotional in Staples tonight.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: 11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

                      Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                      Unfortunately, not everyone thinks like you do.
                      I just have never understood wishing poorly for someone who has given fans so much joy over the years. He gave me tons of good memories and I wish him nothing but the very best.


                      Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: 11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

                        Originally posted by cdash View Post
                        Kobe Bryant just announced his retirement at the end of the season. Should be emotional in Staples tonight.
                        I'm happy for him that he finally got to that mental place where he was able to hang things up gracefully. Too many elite moments to end his career as someone who lacked the self awareness to hang it up.


                        Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: 11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

                          Originally posted by docpaul View Post
                          I just have never understood wishing poorly for someone who has given fans so much joy over the years. He gave me tons of good memories and I wish him nothing but the very best.


                          Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
                          You, sir, are a good man.
                          Originally posted by IrishPacer
                          Empty vessels make the most noise.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: 11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

                            Is Jordan Hill expected to play?

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: 11/29/15 Game Thread #16: Pacers vs. Lakers

                              I gotta be honest, Kobe has grown on me throughout the years. I love his killer mentality. The bro hugs and fist pounds by the Lebron crew is a little too cuddly for me.
                              Last edited by joew8302; 11-29-2015, 08:46 PM.

                              Comment

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