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All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

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  • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

    Yes, the entire NBA figured out Roy. It is a fact. They also figured out how to break down the Pacer defense all together.


    "Pacers will win 50 games this season" 07-16-2015
    "Ian will average 10-10 this season" 10-21-15

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    • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

      Originally posted by JimmyJames View Post
      Yes, the entire NBA figured out Roy. It is a fact. They also figured out how to break down the Pacer defense all together.
      Hurt their players?

      Pacers were #1 defensive team in 13-14, and even with PG missing most of the season, GHill missing almost half, West being a corpse, and filling in with new/end of bench players they were still a top 10 defensive team last season.
      Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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      • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

        Originally posted by Since86 View Post
        Hurt their players?

        Pacers were #1 defensive team in 13-14, and even with PG missing most of the season, GHill missing almost half, West being a corpse, and filling in with new/end of bench players they were still a top 10 defensive team last season.
        And this was also achieved with Hibbert in a reduced role who was only able to play 23 mpg the last month of the season last year.

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        • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

          Originally posted by aamcguy View Post
          An interesting thing about Hibbert is that he was shooting fewer and fewer shots at the rim and more and more mid range jumpers. His average distance also gradually increased over the past 3 years.

          Honestly, it seems like we were trying to use Hibbert in different ways to see if we could keep him defensively while improving our offense. It would also let him run less. I think it didn't work as the coaching staff hoped, and that's why we traded him. They've been wanting to run more for years, but they finally decided to move from Hibbert since West left.
          In large part that's due to his decrease in offensive rebound
          Danger Zone

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          • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

            Originally posted by Rogco View Post
            In large part that's due to his decrease in offensive rebound
            That would explain the drop off in inside shots but not the increase in outside shots.

            Intentionally putting Roy on the perimeter more often would explain both.

            That would definitely explain part of it though, if you assume Hibbert pulled an extra shot or so off of offensive rebounds he used to have. Whether it's the cause or the effect.
            Time for a new sig.

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            • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

              Originally posted by aamcguy View Post
              He's faced that his whole career though. Teams have known how to disrupt Hibbert since day 1, it isn't exactly like he has a nuanced offensive game.

              The fact that hes specifically been taking the 16-17 foot jumper more and more is indicative of a game plan change rather than that he just gives up and goes outside. You don't just allow your 7'2" center to hover above the free throw line unless that's what you want him doing. They ran a lot more action with him up at the top the past couple of years.
              Teams didn't focus on stopping him until he became a known commodity. Once he became "good" he got other team's attention. You could see this how they shut down his offense as he entered his prime...and you could also see that on defense as teams started pulling him away from the basket.

              As for it being a game plan change, I would agree. When a player isn't effective for you, YOUR game plans change. When a player IS effective for you, the other team's game plans change. What we saw with Hibbert is that teams figured him out. The Pacers countered with having Roy shoot more from the outside...that didn't work all that well either...which is why Roy, a former all-star C, is now playing in LA.

              It really is that simple. Go back and read Cable's post again.
              Last edited by BlueNGold; 08-17-2015, 06:47 PM.

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              • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                As BnG has pointed out, opposing Team's defenses has "figured out" Hibbert when it comes to disrupting his scoring on the offensive end. They just have to do 1 of 2 things....( 1 ) push Hibbert outside of his "comfort zone" when it come to where he wants to get the ball and shoot it ( how many times have we seen Hibbert take that hook shot a lot farther than he should? ) or ( 2 ) have multiple defenders collapse on him inside the paint when he gets the ball.

                I think that these 2 methods of disrupting Hibbert's offensive flow forced him to either take an ill-advised shot inside the paint or have pushed him to the FT line for him to take his mid-range jumpshot ( which I think he is good at taking and hitting....especially for a Center ). The problem is that this is still a low-percentage shot that many of us don't want our Center taking.
                QFT. I have to give Roy credit. He definitely forced teams to figure him out. They did and he had no answer. Don't get me wrong, he's still a decent starting C. He's just not anything close to what people were expecting when he became an all-star. I think most here agree with that. As it stands, the Pacers are moving in the right direction with a more highly skilled young C. It will take time, but the franchise is making the right decisions.

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                • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                  Originally posted by aamcguy View Post
                  That would explain the drop off in inside shots but not the increase in outside shots.

                  Intentionally putting Roy on the perimeter more often would explain both.

                  That would definitely explain part of it though, if you assume Hibbert pulled an extra shot or so off of offensive rebounds he used to have. Whether it's the cause or the effect.
                  If inside is considered inside 3 ft, the increase in outside shots is easily explained. Roy would be in bad position but still launch falling hooks. As his touches went down he became more likely to take bad shots instead of give up the ball. He has always struggled to hold good post position.

                  Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

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                  • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                    Originally posted by spazzxb View Post
                    If inside is considered inside 3 ft, the increase in outside shots is easily explained. Roy would be in bad position but still launch falling hooks. As his touches went down he became more likely to take bad shots instead of give up the ball. He has always struggled to hold good post position.

                    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
                    Right there...and it became worse as teams planned to stop him. We just need someone willing to push his little fanny around and he will miss shots and fall down. How many times does he have to fall down for people to see what's going on? It's not simply balance. There is also some contact...and it doesn't take much.

                    But he becomes a true detriment to a team when the opposition has a guy who can push him around AND pull him away from the basket on the other side of the court. His game simply falls apart at that point. We are fixing this issue though now....

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                    • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                      I swear just a few weeks ago people were telling me that Hibbert was so bad that teams didn't have to do anything to stop him and now he was only stopped because teams paid special attention to him?

                      If a guy can anchor a top 5 defense and be a big part of a top 5 rebounding team while requiring that the opposition change both their standard offensive and defensive sets, what problem so people really have with him?

                      I still contend the Pacers wanted to go in a different direction, and the past couple years was them trying Hibbert out in a new role. He wasn't as effective as they wanted in that role offensively while effectively limitong the teams options, they had a few big men in the draft they liked, and West opted out. Put all that together, and they decided to move on.

                      There's a big dark viewpoint to the whole Hibbert situation that I just don't think actually exists.
                      Time for a new sig.

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                      • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                        Originally posted by aamcguy View Post
                        I swear just a few weeks ago people were telling me that Hibbert was so bad that teams didn't have to do anything to stop him and now he was only stopped because teams paid special attention to him?

                        If a guy can anchor a top 5 defense and be a big part of a top 5 rebounding team while requiring that the opposition change both their standard offensive and defensive sets, what problem so people really have with him?

                        I still contend the Pacers wanted to go in a different direction, and the past couple years was them trying Hibbert out in a new role. He wasn't as effective as they wanted in that role offensively while effectively limitong the teams options, they had a few big men in the draft they liked, and West opted out. Put all that together, and they decided to move on.

                        There's a big dark viewpoint to the whole Hibbert situation that I just don't think actually exists.
                        I'm not so sure the Pacers were interested in changing their style that much, even after things went sideways last year (i.e. in 2014). I think Bird wanted to keep that group together, including Lance, but it continued to fall apart. By the time 2015 rolled around, they were done with Hibbert and ready to move on. He was a big salary and a big problem they wanted to cut. I think they wanted to keep DWest and find a way to retool at that point. Once DWest opted out, they decided to completely give up trying to get value from Hibbert and went an entirely new direction. I do think they were planning to run more, but not such a dramatic change. I think Bird is on record saying all of this.

                        So...I do think they were trying to cut that huge salary and move on from Hibbert. But I tend to doubt they would have given him away if DWest would have stuck around. The issue is finding a guy to set next to Hibbert who is also a grown adult. They didn't think that guy existed out there and didn't want Hibbert around to spoil the young ones. Dude, he was trouble and Brunner and Boyle have already confirmed it...but people continue to be fooled by Good Ole Roy's persona.

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                        • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                          Let me put this as simple as possible. Roy's stock kept dropping both on the floor and in the locker room. Once DWest opted out, it became a fire sale on Hibbert shares. The company should be filing bankruptcy soon.

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                          • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                            Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                            Let me put this as simple as possible. Roy's stock kept dropping both on the floor and in the locker room. Once DWest opted out, it became a fire sale on Hibbert shares. The company should be filing bankruptcy soon.
                            B/C there is only one player who will "show them all next year..." And only one former Pacer in LA is capable of turning his career around...

                            Pretty sure you go out of your way to take shots at Roy... It is beyond tiresome... If it only did any good to ignore you from my work computer... **Sigh**
                            Abba Zaba, your my only friend.

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                            • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                              I think there's plenty of evidence they wanted to change their style. You just have to look at the players we brought in, the change in Hibbert/West's role in the offense, the insistence that the team get out and run more, the talk of running a Spurs type offense. The shots our big men took changed.

                              We also didn't continue falling apart. We lost our best player for basically the entire season and George Hill missed half the year. And it still took a long losing streak at the end of the season to knock ourselves out of the playoffs.
                              Time for a new sig.

                              Comment


                              • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                                Bird is on record saying that the style was changing but not nearly as radically until David West decided to opt out
                                Last edited by BlueNGold; 08-18-2015, 07:51 AM.

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