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2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

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  • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

    Just so we're clear, the Pacers do know what "small ball is", right? Because I'm pretty sure they've decided to go the route of "undersized ball". The Warriors may have went smaller with their bigs but our team has taken it to another level of going small with our wings. If PG is expected to be a lanky dude getting knocked around every night at power forward, that means we're gonna be 6'3 at shooting guard and 6'5-6'6 at small forward. The Pacers do know that Thompson at SG is 6'7 and Barnes at SF is 6'8... right? Pathetic how undersized this team is on paper. Garbage free agents left so in other words, this roster is what we get. If this team is higher than the 5th seed, I'll eat my own shorts. At this point, I'm betting on 7th at best with the more likely scenario of missing. If we were trying to be like the Warriors, we at least would have offered Tobias Harris or something assuming Draymond was never leaving GS. Tobias Harris could have been had, a 23 year old 5* recruit that went pro after his freshman year and puts up 18-10 like it's nothing. Instead, we offered a midget shooting guard that gets handled by other team's point guards and re-signed a worse version of him that's slightly bigger. And at power forward... we have nothing. If we wanted to go small, Tobias Harris was our guy. Paul George was better suited at staying SF like Harrison Barnes. Going to be funny when the Cavs decide to go big against us and Lebron runs over guys like Ellis, Stuckey and Miles at SG/SF. Not like he couldn't run through Paul George at PF for that matter.

    The way we chose to go small and our plan in doing so, the front office may as well just admit they have forfeited this season because this team is winning nothing. Zero chance of ECF, 20% chance of making the playoffs at all. Those are my odds, and I think 20% is on the high end, I was tempted to say 10%. Mahinimi(back up), Myles(raw rookie), Lavoy(couldn't get off bench)... those are our bigs, lol hilarious. When your next bigs in line are Paul George and Solomon Hill... just spit soda out of my mouth, I can't. This team has reverted to garbage. There will be no blaming Hibbert's worthless butt for this future crap show. We're like the misfit island for broken toys. People joke about the 76ers potential 5 center starting line up, but what about us? We're actually going to follow through on putting 4 guards on the floor. Wasn't long ago Paul George was our shooting guard so yeah, we'll be starting 4 guards basically and whatever piece of junk bench big man of ours we choose to start. None of them are worthy of starting this season and yet all 3 will get major minutes. Let's cross our fingers we can re-sign Scola, that will fix the issue.
    Last edited by TOP; 07-07-2015, 11:32 PM.
    "I have never taken the high road, but I tell other people to ’cause then there’s more room for me on the low road."

    Comment


    • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

      Aziz Ansari's is the most happy go lucky dude on the planet, yet here you are. Such a peculiar choice.

      Comment


      • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

        Originally posted by TOP View Post
        Just so we're clear, the Pacers do know what "small ball is", right? Because I'm pretty sure they've decided to go the route of "undersized ball". The Warriors may have went smaller with their bigs but our team has taken it to another level of going small with our wings. If PG is expected to be a lanky dude getting knocked around every night at power forward, that means we're gonna be 6'3 at shooting guard and 6'5-6'6 at small forward. The Pacers do know that Thompson at SG is 6'7 and Barnes at SF is 6'8... right? Pathetic how undersized this team is on paper. Garbage free agents left so in other words, this roster is what we get. If this team is higher than the 5th seed, I'll eat my own shorts. At this point, I'm betting on 7th at best with the more likely scenario of missing. If we were trying to be like the Warriors, we at least would have offered Tobias Harris or something assuming Draymond was never leaving GS. Tobias Harris could have been had, a 23 year old 5* recruit that went pro after his freshman year and puts up 18-10 like it's nothing. Instead, we offered a midget shooting guard that gets handled by other team's point guards and re-signed a worse version of him that's slightly bigger. And at power forward... we have nothing. If we wanted to go small, Tobias Harris was our guy. Paul George was better suited at staying SF like Harrison Barnes. Going to be funny when the Cavs decide to go big against us and Lebron runs over guys like Ellis, Stuckey and Miles at SG/SF. Not like he couldn't run through Paul George at PF for that matter.

        The way we chose to go small and our plan in doing so, the front office may as well just admit they have forfeited this season because this team is winning nothing. Zero chance of ECF, 20% chance of making the playoffs at all. Those are my odds, and I think 20% is on the high end, I was tempted to say 10%. Mahinimi(back up), Myles(raw rookie), Lavoy(couldn't get off bench)... those are our bigs, lol hilarious. When your next bigs in line are Paul George and Solomon Hill... just spit soda out of my mouth, I can't. This team has reverted to garbage. There will be no blaming Hibbert's worthless butt for this future crap show. We're like the misfit island for broken toys. People joke about the 76ers potential 5 center starting line up, but what about us? We're actually going to follow through on putting 4 guards on the floor. Wasn't long ago Paul George was our shooting guard so yeah, we'll be starting 4 guards basically and whatever piece of junk bench big man of ours we choose to start. None of them are worthy of starting this season and yet all 3 will get major minutes. Let's cross our fingers we can re-sign Scola, that will fix the issue.
        I can at least agree with your outlook. Had we kept the core together and if they were healthy I think we were looking at an ECF team.
        This current team with 85% of our payroll spent on wings will if healthy sneak into the playoffs at a 7-8 seed and will be a very easy first round out due to it's lack of size and defense. If Paul isn't very close to 100% this is a lottery team again.
        I know a lot of people think that it's o.k. to take this major step back as it will take more then 1 season to build this team again but I'm very skeptical. Why would any major free agent choose the Pacers next summer when every single team in the league will be able to offer them a max contract?
        Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

        Comment


        • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

          We are not sneaking into the playoffs with a healthy PG.

          Comment


          • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

            Originally posted by ilive4sports View Post
            We are not sneaking into the playoffs with a healthy PG.
            PG gets back to PG I think we're probably at worst a 6 seed, at best a 4 (Cleveland, Chicago, Washington, Atlanta, Milwaukee, think they're all better than us on paper, think Orlando's gonna surprise but they're young as hell and will fizzle in the playoffs, but gotta start somewhere).

            I mean ****, I don't care if we're starting Zan Tabak and Peja Stojakovic's back in the frontcourt, if we can't win at least 40ish games in the East with Hill/Ellis/PG we got problems.

            Comment


            • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

              Originally posted by ilive4sports View Post
              We are not sneaking into the playoffs with a healthy PG.
              What on earth are you talking about? Did you watch the East last year? We almost made the playoffs last year without PG. With West missing 16 games and giving up once he returned. George Hill was injured half of the season (and CJ Watson almost as much)... Sloan started 21 games, Copeland 12!... and yet we still missed the playoffs by just 1 game.

              After reflecting back on all our team went through last year (and see how we performed with what we had), I really think our coaching staff is under valued around here.
              "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

              Comment


              • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

                Originally posted by tadscout View Post
                What on earth are you talking about? Did you watch the East last year? We almost made the playoffs last year without PG. With West missing 16 games and giving up once he returned. George Hill was injured half of the season (and CJ Watson almost as much)... Sloan started 21 games, Copeland 12!... and yet we still missed the playoffs by just 1 game.

                After reflecting back on all our team went through last year (and see how we performed with what we had), I really think our coaching staff is under valued around here.
                I took that more as he was saying that we are definitely making the playoffs with a healthy Paul George. Like...we are such a lock for the playoffs that we are NOT sneaking in. We are in.

                Hell...I don't know what half this board is saying anymore.

                Comment


                • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

                  Originally posted by cramerica View Post
                  I took that more as he was saying that we are definitely making the playoffs with a healthy Paul George. Like...we are such a lock for the playoffs that we are NOT sneaking in. We are in.

                  Hell...I don't know what half this board is saying anymore.
                  If so, I apologize, just there's been so much pessimism floating around, just left in that short statement I may have taken it the wrong way.
                  "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

                  Comment


                  • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

                    Originally posted by TOP View Post
                    Just so we're clear, the Pacers do know what "small ball is", right? Because I'm pretty sure they've decided to go the route of "undersized ball". The Warriors may have went smaller with their bigs but our team has taken it to another level of going small with our wings. If PG is expected to be a lanky dude getting knocked around every night at power forward, that means we're gonna be 6'3 at shooting guard and 6'5-6'6 at small forward. The Pacers do know that Thompson at SG is 6'7 and Barnes at SF is 6'8... right? Pathetic how undersized this team is on paper. Garbage free agents left so in other words, this roster is what we get. If this team is higher than the 5th seed, I'll eat my own shorts. At this point, I'm betting on 7th at best with the more likely scenario of missing. If we were trying to be like the Warriors, we at least would have offered Tobias Harris or something assuming Draymond was never leaving GS. Tobias Harris could have been had, a 23 year old 5* recruit that went pro after his freshman year and puts up 18-10 like it's nothing. Instead, we offered a midget shooting guard that gets handled by other team's point guards and re-signed a worse version of him that's slightly bigger. And at power forward... we have nothing. If we wanted to go small, Tobias Harris was our guy. Paul George was better suited at staying SF like Harrison Barnes. Going to be funny when the Cavs decide to go big against us and Lebron runs over guys like Ellis, Stuckey and Miles at SG/SF. Not like he couldn't run through Paul George at PF for that matter.

                    The way we chose to go small and our plan in doing so, the front office may as well just admit they have forfeited this season because this team is winning nothing. Zero chance of ECF, 20% chance of making the playoffs at all. Those are my odds, and I think 20% is on the high end, I was tempted to say 10%. Mahinimi(back up), Myles(raw rookie), Lavoy(couldn't get off bench)... those are our bigs, lol hilarious. When your next bigs in line are Paul George and Solomon Hill... just spit soda out of my mouth, I can't. This team has reverted to garbage. There will be no blaming Hibbert's worthless butt for this future crap show. We're like the misfit island for broken toys. People joke about the 76ers potential 5 center starting line up, but what about us? We're actually going to follow through on putting 4 guards on the floor. Wasn't long ago Paul George was our shooting guard so yeah, we'll be starting 4 guards basically and whatever piece of junk bench big man of ours we choose to start. None of them are worthy of starting this season and yet all 3 will get major minutes. Let's cross our fingers we can re-sign Scola, that will fix the issue.
                    People aren't going to like your message in part because of the delivery, but... I'm not sure there's a lot I disagree with.

                    Only caveat is, the offseason isn't done yet. Let's wait and see what further moves Bird can pull off.

                    Comment


                    • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

                      Originally posted by TOP View Post
                      Just so we're clear, the Pacers do know what "small ball is", right? Because I'm pretty sure they've decided to go the route of "undersized ball". The Warriors may have went smaller with their bigs but our team has taken it to another level of going small with our wings. If PG is expected to be a lanky dude getting knocked around every night at power forward, that means we're gonna be 6'3 at shooting guard and 6'5-6'6 at small forward. The Pacers do know that Thompson at SG is 6'7 and Barnes at SF is 6'8... right? Pathetic how undersized this team is on paper. Garbage free agents left so in other words, this roster is what we get. If this team is higher than the 5th seed, I'll eat my own shorts. At this point, I'm betting on 7th at best with the more likely scenario of missing. If we were trying to be like the Warriors, we at least would have offered Tobias Harris or something assuming Draymond was never leaving GS. Tobias Harris could have been had, a 23 year old 5* recruit that went pro after his freshman year and puts up 18-10 like it's nothing. Instead, we offered a midget shooting guard that gets handled by other team's point guards and re-signed a worse version of him that's slightly bigger. And at power forward... we have nothing. If we wanted to go small, Tobias Harris was our guy. Paul George was better suited at staying SF like Harrison Barnes. Going to be funny when the Cavs decide to go big against us and Lebron runs over guys like Ellis, Stuckey and Miles at SG/SF. Not like he couldn't run through Paul George at PF for that matter.

                      The way we chose to go small and our plan in doing so, the front office may as well just admit they have forfeited this season because this team is winning nothing. Zero chance of ECF, 20% chance of making the playoffs at all. Those are my odds, and I think 20% is on the high end, I was tempted to say 10%. Mahinimi(back up), Myles(raw rookie), Lavoy(couldn't get off bench)... those are our bigs, lol hilarious. When your next bigs in line are Paul George and Solomon Hill... just spit soda out of my mouth, I can't. This team has reverted to garbage. There will be no blaming Hibbert's worthless butt for this future crap show. We're like the misfit island for broken toys. People joke about the 76ers potential 5 center starting line up, but what about us? We're actually going to follow through on putting 4 guards on the floor. Wasn't long ago Paul George was our shooting guard so yeah, we'll be starting 4 guards basically and whatever piece of junk bench big man of ours we choose to start. None of them are worthy of starting this season and yet all 3 will get major minutes. Let's cross our fingers we can re-sign Scola, that will fix the issue.
                      I don't think Bird's vision is the GS Warriors. I know when most of us heard that we wanted to up the tempo and place PG at the 4, we immediately thought of the Warriors but Bird's signings does not equate to GS at all. I honestly can't tell you what Bird's vision is, but I wonder if it's a quasi-vision of the PHX Suns team led by Dragic and Bledose from a few years ago. But even for that plan to work, we need another big that can knock down jump shots.

                      Though I'm much more optimistic about the Ellis addition than you seem to be, I can somewhat understand your outlook. Our frontcourt is easily the worst in the league right now. I will tell you that ORL had already made it clear that they would have matched any offer on Harris, so signing him to an offer sheet would have meant nothing. And we didn't have the money to offer him max money before he re-signed anyway (the Hibbert trade speculation came after if I'm
                      not mistaken)

                      I don't think the team as previously constructed would have won a lot of games in the regular season but I think they would have been a tougher out in the playoffs. But we weren't contending for anything but a second round playoff exit. That's probably this current teams ceiling anyway. So in the grand scheme of things, idk that we lost much ground. We had to start this transition sometime, so starting it now with guys on very good value contracts isn't exactly the worst thing in the world.

                      Ps. Smile man

                      Comment


                      • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

                        Another defending wing like Justice or Stanley would really be nice in the future. I get the size concern TOP. Smallball is one thing but smurfball is a whole nother unknown.
                        {o,o}
                        |)__)
                        -"-"-

                        Comment


                        • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

                          Trying to copy golden state without steph curry is almost as bad an idea as the teams 10-15 years ago that tried to run the triangle without Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant.

                          Nothing wrong with trying a different formula, but the players make the scheme work in the NBA, not the other way around.
                          Last edited by Kstat; 07-08-2015, 08:20 AM.

                          It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                          Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                          Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                          NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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                          • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

                            Originally posted by Kstat View Post
                            Trying to copy golden state without steph curry is almost as bad an idea as the teams 10-15 years ago that tried to run the triangle without Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant.

                            Nothing wrong with trying a different formula, but the players make the scheme work in the NBA, not the other way around.
                            I get the kinda gross feeling that we're keeping up with the Jones's to keep selling enough tickets, maybe/probably get in the playoffs and that's about it. monetarily I think the Pacers have made some pretty good signings, I just don't get the sense of any sort of long term plan. course once Turner puts up 15/10/2 and wins ROY everything will change.

                            seriously though, minutes really are there for Turner for a ROY run.

                            Comment


                            • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

                              I loved the Monta Ellis idea. I thought he would rejuvenate the old core. Then West and Hibbert were basically lost for nothing. Then Stuckey was brought back, and no one was brought in to replace either Hibbert or West....

                              I don't know what's going on. Honestly. I don't even see a good small-ball team, because all three guards are really effective with the ball in their hands and not nearly as productive without it. And they play on a team with Paul George, who you might want to have the ball in his hands too...

                              Solomon Hill almost has to start on this team, because there aren't enough shots to go around as it is and he's the one guy that isn't any worse without touching the ball. And who's the center? 19-year old Myles Turner? You really want to play with his confidence level by throwing him to the wolves? Ian Mahinmi? You want him and Solomon Hill in the same starting 5?

                              Who rebounds on this team? Who's the physical enforcer?

                              I assume there are more moves coming, but at this point in the offseason I don't see a roster that works.
                              Last edited by Kstat; 07-08-2015, 08:46 AM.

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                              • Re: 2015-16 NBA Offseason thread

                                I don't know if we're trying to copy GSW or not, but if there's something I'd like to copy, it's their switching defense (top ranked defense in the league). And that has nothing to do with Curry. Instead it's all about Draymond Green (and Iguodala, and Thompson, and Barnes).

                                Zach Lowe describes it here: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/go...ors-nba-title/

                                Golden State’s penchant for switching has drawn all the headlines lately, including in this space. They start three like-size players in between Bogut and the improving Curry; Harrison Barnes, Klay Thompson, and Green can all switch against lots of teams without conceding much. Golden State’s go-to bench units feature four wings who can switch on the fly — Barnes, Thompson, Andre Iguodala, and Shaun Livingston.

                                Switching is dangerous. It creates mismatches; Thompson fronting Dirk Nowitzki in the post after a Monta Ellis/Dirk pick-and-roll is a scary thing.

                                But it can also stall out offenses that thrive by moving the ball through tiny crevices that open when non-switching defenses rotate around the floor:

                                Switching a single high pick-and-roll is easy, especially when the opposing point guard is just pounding the ball and waiting for the screen. What separates the Warriors is how fluidly they switch and re-switch everywhere, on and off the ball, as opposing offenses run their course. Look at how smoothly Livingston and Thompson negotiate which of them should guard each member of the Aaron Brooks–Kirk Hinrich duo during the chaos of semi-transition:

                                That’s a small bit of hoops ballet.

                                The bigs can do it, too. Watch Green and Bogut flip-flop assignments during this Chicago pick-and-roll:

                                That is the stuff most teams eventually mess up. Two defenders will chase one offensive player, or one will hesitate a split second before realizing he needs to switch.

                                Golden State almost never messes this up. It’s remarkable. “When some teams switch, there are gaps,” Green says. “We don’t have any gaps.” It’s not even something they practice much, Kerr says. “It just comes pretty naturally to our guys,” he says. “We have very smart players.”
                                And here too: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/th...tate-warriors/

                                Golden State used speed to leverage the rules on defense, too. When the NBA lifted the old illegal defense rules, it freed players to roam almost anywhere they wanted. You could ignore non-shooters to put out fires somewhere else, knowing that if your guy suddenly came open, a teammate would rush to your aid. The Warriors’ small-ball lineups had a short vertical reach, but they were the league’s best defense on the horizontal plane. They were everywhere, denying entry to the post, clogging up passing lanes, swiping for steals at exactly the right moment. They sometimes moved more fluidly on defense than on offense.
                                Next season's Pacers look like they will feature lineups with heavy doses of PG, Solo, Miles, Stuckey, Rudez, and maybe George Hill too manning the 2-4 positions. Being able to switch like GSW would be a good thing.

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