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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

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  • #46
    Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

    Originally posted by Peck View Post
    We are slightly over half way through this season. Knowing what you know right now and what you predict to come the rest of this season what do you truly think will be the outcome if the Pacers stand pat and go into next season with minimal change and adding a draft pick (let's say pick between 8-11. For arguments sake let's say we let Copeland and Allen walk but we retain Scola.
    Are you going to vote in the poll? Just curious as to what you think.
    Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

      There are a lot of bad teams in the East, but the hypothetical top 6 is pretty damn good, and I couldn't be too upset with being part of that.

      I'd be surprised if the discussion on dealing with West's decline isn't the most contentious discussion between Bird, Pritch, and Walsh. (After all the Lance debates, of course.)
      You Got The Tony!!!!!!

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

        Tough question. I think we'd be back towards the top of the East by the end of the season, but we could have to contend with a Cleveland team that finally puts it all together and an improved and more-experienced Atlanta team that was already a match-up nightmare. Other than that, though, the East doesn't scare me, though Detroit seems to match up pretty well with us, too.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

          My problem with a potential "3 year plan" or whatever is all of the young teams in the East. I think we're looking at a time where the power is going to shift back East. Boston has a billion draft picks, Philly has a bunch of young talent with more coming, Orlando looks like a team that will put it together once they get a coach and some more experience, Atlanta, Washington, and Toronto are not old by any means. I think this 3 year window is our best time to win the East again. Cleveland will never be Miami. Chicago is already on a downturn, IMO. I think we can rebuild quickly and win next year. It just won't be with David West and Roy Hibbert as our frontcourt.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

            Peck does West stay?

            There are so many variables I just don't see any way the team isn't different in a major way (to me this means one of if not both West and Roy are replaced by different starters.

            I guess if I play it where everything is the same we add a rookie picked around 10 and Paul George, I see this team as 4th or 5th and right around 50 wins. But I think there are plenty of opportunities and areas we can improve between now and next fall.

            I took your second option because I guess it was closest to my feeling of a second round team, but we need a little more to get back to ECF/title contention, but like I said I think the tools are there to do that. (Money, pick, trades are all available to us.)

            I will be absolutely shocked if our starting lineup next year is

            Hill
            Stuckey or MIles or Hill 2
            Paul
            West
            Roy

            That would completely shock me. That team though I still think could be 4 if healthy. Some teams in the East are going to get better (Orlando immediately springs to mind), but a lot are going to get even worse, Miami will be older, the Nets are up **** creek, etc. Plus I think the Raptors may not have the staying power some think. Chicago is really interesting Joakim Noah is already showing signs of the mileage piling up on his body the past two years, Pau is no spring chicken and Rose is an every other night guy at this point in terms of impact. Jimmy Butler is great, obviously, but can the Bulls even afford him? Some tough decisions to make in Chi town.

            That being said, I think Bird uses our pick and perhaps Solomon Hill to trade for an all star type player at the 2 or 4 position.

            I don't think the return of a player on the caliber of Paul can be understated either. I know Paul is not Lebron, but just look at that team now with a rested, healthy Lebron over the past 6 games vs. the Cavs without him what did they do without him like 2-9? Paul may not be the difference between a 2-9 and a 6-0 team, but look at what just the inclusion of George Hill does to this team. It takes a 12-27 team and turns them into a 4-3 team. And while Paul may not be Lebron, G Hill is not Paul. Barring a major trade the Pacers will make the single largest addition of the offseason just by Paul being healthy.
            Last edited by Trader Joe; 01-26-2015, 02:09 PM.


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            • #51
              Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

              Originally posted by shags View Post
              The question I have with George is if his injury is a 2 year injury. And by 2 year injury, I mean he sits one season out completely and then the 2nd season he plays but isn't as effective as he was the year prior to the injury. By year 3, he'll be back to his old self.

              Does anyone know that?
              It's a lot of speculation. Guys that have had this injury are all over the board on recovery, age, skill level at the time of injury, etc. I believe Paul will be ready to play a lot sooner than most on here, but I'm not sure IF he will play. I expect we will see him resuming full of basketball activity well before this season ends and I think that will help a lot with the rust. A big part of it will just be confidence, which I think for Paul's credit we can say is something he's never particularly lacked in.


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              • #52
                Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

                Losing your #1 guy (both on offense and defense) is huge. Look how well Atlanta does without Horford - who normally gets injured around the AS break
                "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.


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                • #53
                  Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

                  Originally posted by Really? View Post
                  For me it is not Hill, but the way he is used, if that doesn't change you really won't be able to get the most out of him.
                  I could agree with this, but hasn't Hill been used in an aggressive fashion every game so far? And late game against Orlando you even got what a lot of people begged for which was for him to be out there with another point guard. Coaches can and do adjust, especially young ones who are put through an exceedingly difficult year (See Poppovich, Gregg in his year without David Robinson). Our young coach hasn't had to deal with a lot of adversity until now. He's just now in his career having to juggle lineups and try to find things that work on the fly, I think he will benefit tremendously from this year in the long run, JMO

                  Let's not discount Vogel in all of this, a guy who has accomplished way more in his first 4 seasons (and by the age of 41) than some coaches will in their entire careers. There was a lot of talk when that guy who used to wear number 1 but we can't use his name because he has a giant thread dedicated to him that we had lost our only other young asset beyond Paul George, but I disagree. Having a 41 year old head coach who has already been to 2 conference finals with your team and will very soon end up the winningest coach in the NBA history of your franchise (Frank need 7 more wins to pass Larry Brown) is a pretty damn decent young asset.


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                  • #54
                    Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

                    Originally posted by MillerTime View Post
                    Losing your #1 guy (both on offense and defense) is huge. Look how well Atlanta does without Horford - who normally gets injured around the AS break
                    Great point. The addition of Horford is a big reason the Hawks went from 8th to best. Yeah another year in Budenholzer's system hasn't hurt, but watch how much Horford does for that team. He attracts post double teams, he is their best post defender. He changes a lot for that squad. They are no longer a team that HAS to get hot from 3 to be great, they can still do that, but now they have a legit half court system that is just abusive. The 2 man stuff they run with Milsap/Horford is downright sick


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                    • #55
                      Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

                      Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                      I could agree with this, but hasn't Hill been used in an aggressive fashion every game so far? And late game against Orlando you even got what a lot of people begged for which was for him to be out there with another point guard. Coaches can and do adjust, especially young ones who are put through an exceedingly difficult year (See Poppovich, Gregg in his year without David Robinson). Our young coach hasn't had to deal with a lot of adversity until now. He's just now in his career having to juggle lineups and try to find things that work on the fly, I think he will benefit tremendously from this year in the long run, JMO

                      Let's not discount Vogel in all of this, a guy who has accomplished way more in his first 4 seasons (and by the age of 41) than some coaches will in their entire careers. There was a lot of talk when that guy who used to wear number 1 but we can't use his name because he has a giant thread dedicated to him that we had lost our only other young asset beyond Paul George, but I disagree. Having a 41 year old head coach who has already been to 2 conference finals with your team and will very soon end up the winningest coach in the NBA history of your franchise (Frank need 7 more wins to pass Larry Brown) is a pretty damn decent young asset.
                      Hill is coming back from injury, but thing is last month dude shot 45.5% from 3 pt range, and is shooting 48% over the past two months, I think once he keeps getting healthy and plays more he will continue to show improvement...
                      Why so SERIOUS

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                      • #56
                        Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

                        Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                        Let's not discount Vogel in all of this, a guy who has accomplished way more in his first 4 seasons (and by the age of 41) than some coaches will in their entire careers. There was a lot of talk when that guy who used to wear number 1 but we can't use his name because he has a giant thread dedicated to him that we had lost our only other young asset beyond Paul George, but I disagree. Having a 41 year old head coach who has already been to 2 conference finals with your team and will very soon end up the winningest coach in the NBA history of your franchise (Frank need 7 more wins to pass Larry Brown) is a pretty damn decent young asset.
                        That's absurd.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

                          A couple of things:

                          - Paul's injury is typically not the type that linger like a ligament injury, so although he will probably deal with some scar tissue and potential for arthritis, he shouldn't have that "lag" year like most players with ligament injuries typically deal with.
                          - We are a defensive team that is playing without one of the best defenders in the entire league. Of course we aren't the same team. The fact that we have played as well as we have defensively with so many so-so backups is a credit to Hibert's defensive ability.
                          - The Luxury Tax line is much more the indicator of our spending limitations, which next year is predicted to be in the $78-81M range, depending on projections. We have about $64M tied up already and the MLE would only take us up to about $71M (that wouldn't kill us if we spent it all on one player). We have our Bi-Annual Exception (~$2M) and the rest would be minimum players or players we have Bird or Early Bird Rights on.
                          -As is, I believe we are a 3-6 seed in the east next year.

                          As to the team, I believe that we won't do a whole lot to change the complexion of our team. I think we will take the same patient approach we have taken to the building of this roster. We need to be over the salary cap to have more flexibility for the roster. You really need to be over or way under the salary cap as a GM. I think, if anything we will be buyers at the trade deadline.

                          Roster Without Moves
                          PG - Hill
                          SG - George, Miles
                          SF - Hill, Rudez
                          PF - West
                          C - Hibbert, Mahinmi

                          What I'd like us to do:

                          I personally believe we will get a PF in the draft. I know we take the best player on our board typically regardless of position, but the best talent I see for the top of this draft tend to be bigs this year and that fits our roster's maturation. We truly have a rotation as is for next year. As constructed, Paul would have to be the primary ball handler for the 12 minutes a night GHill sits. The obvious areas of need are starting SF, backup PG and backup PF. That said, I would like to see our roster filled out with upside players on smaller deals. I would target free agents from the D-League who have grown their games or young castoffs from other teams.

                          Outside of the Box Moves:

                          I think we should target Arron Afflalo from Denver who I think would be a perfect target for us and would bring a very versatile game to our starting unit. I also think we should bring back Allen or Scola, but not both assuming we draft a big. We have the space to be able to work around both of those moves. We also should consider talking to Hibbert about opting out of his contract and signing him to a five year $55M deal, which would seriously help our team's cap situation and guarantee more money for the big fella in the form of security. I would love to see a guy like Thomas Robinson or another young big with upside who would be mentored by West brought in.
                          Last edited by pacergod2; 01-26-2015, 04:39 PM.
                          "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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                          • #58
                            Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

                            Other teams have gotten better and the Pacers have stayed the same. Now injuries have hit the team and showing they just aren't that good without PG and GHill. West is old. Hibbert remains inconsistent. GHill is not a pg. Still no real solution at sg, Stuckey and Miles have been pretty disappointing.

                            I guess you can say this team finally has a decent bench. They regularly outplay the starters.

                            It's a loveable team w/ some nice guys, but this team is so unathletic compared to some of the teams that have leaped over them.
                            First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

                              Originally posted by Sparhawk View Post
                              Other teams have gotten better and the Pacers have stayed the same.
                              The Pacers have taken steps backward in several ways beyond injuries. First, even if he returns and plays we don't know if Paul will ever be the same player. Second, we don't have a starting caliber SG. Third, David West has seen his best days come and go. He's just not the same player. Fourth, Hibbert has regressed over the years and may have seen his best NBA seasons come and go. When he attempts to re-sign, it will be for far less and that might further hurt his confidence, putting him into a complete tail spin. Fifth, George Hill is becoming injury prone. First the shoulder issues he was having, now legs. Seriously, in many ways we are not a contender any more, even if 100% healthy.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: I would like to get an honest feeling of the board

                                BnG,
                                Add in Hibbert has been figured out and teams are able to use his lack of athleticism and slowness against him. Probably equally if not more important, his confidence seems to be easily shattered as we all know, but when teams are able to take advantage of him he wilts mentally even further.
                                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                                ------

                                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                                -John Wooden

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