All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

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  • Guardshock
    Happy to be a fan
    • Oct 2014
    • 861

    Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Originally posted by joew8302
    To me the whole concept of starting is overblown. If a guy gets his minutes then who cares? CJ Miles doesn't have enough clout to be angry about not starting anyways.
    Exactly. I really enjoy guys that are mellow headed. Cj Miles, Stuckey, Watson, Hill, Solo, Lavoy. There's more I'm sure. I just hate players that act like Gerald green and Nick Young.
    Indiana State University Alum. Hardcore Pacers fan. Racecar Driver in need of sponsorship.

    www.jjhughesracing.com

    Comment

    • wintermute
      Artificial Intelligence
      • Jan 2004
      • 7008

      Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

      Originally posted by Guardshock
      I'm not sure if you were listening during the game, (before the game) they asked Miles why he wasn't starting and he said he really doesn't care where he is, he just wants to play solid minutes. They also talked to Frank and I guess Frank pulled CJ aside asking if he wanted to start or continue off the bench and miles replied, if it ain't broke don't fix it. So, Miles could start if he wanted to but that's the reason miles isn't starting.
      So... you think Miles will be starting over Solo next year when PG is healthy? Or maybe only if he wants to?

      Comment

      • McKeyFan
        Intuition over Integers
        • Jan 2004
        • 15054

        Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

        Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson
        Walker and Big Al aren't making him shoot below 15% for 3. That's regression. Walker and Big Al aren't making him shoot below 50% at the rim, and they aren't making him shoot in the 60's from the FT line.
        Spot on. This is Lance's problem, and nothing else.

        He has the ability to be a great player. In fact, he is very close to it. But unfortunately he has enough talent to not work his @ss off to be a great shooter (like most players must do). He got by with it until this year.

        Lance can still be great; but he's going to have to want it.
        "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

        Comment

        • Since86
          Member
          • Dec 2004
          • 27818

          Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

          Originally posted by BlueNGold
          Nope. More straw men.

          Ok, maybe you just misunderstood what xIndyFan understood quite well. I'm saying the Pacers, with this cast of characters at SG whether you want to talk CJ, Stuckey or Solo, are not capable of being as good as they would be with a young and improving Lance Stephenson. In fact, the difference is so large we aren't going to contend with this team. With DWest slowing down, this ship isn't going to be right even when Paul returns...which is my point. Paul would not be able to save this team from taking a solid step down. You can point all day to Charlotte but it cannot erase what happened last year.
          I'm not trying to erase last year. I'm trying to get you to explain how Lance looking awful in Char means that Lance Stephenson is the straw that stirred the Pacers drink. If Lance was such a good player, that he's the missing piece for the entire franchise that it all hinged around him, then how in the f-ing world is he so damn awful in Char? It doesn't make one bit of sense.

          You give the "Troy Murphy" criticism of players who can put up bad numbers on a bad team, and yet your lover can't even do that. The only time Lance has been Lance, has been when Paul has been there to hold his hand. You mock Roy, or other players like GHill about their struggles, and then you have every excuse under the sun for Lance. It's awfully funny to watch you squirm now that your standards are being applied to your favorite.
          Last edited by Since86; 01-06-2015, 02:30 PM.
          Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

          Comment

          • joew8302
            Member
            • Jul 2008
            • 9561

            Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

            Originally posted by Guardshock
            Exactly. I really enjoy guys that are mellow headed. Cj Miles, Stuckey, Watson, Hill, Solo, Lavoy. There's more I'm sure. I just hate players that act like Gerald green and Nick Young.
            You and Grimp hopefully never meet up. FWIW I agree with you.

            Comment

            • Guardshock
              Happy to be a fan
              • Oct 2014
              • 861

              Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

              Originally posted by wintermute
              So... you think Miles will be starting over Solo next year when PG is healthy? Or maybe only if he wants to?
              So, I think I look at solo and think, I could see him being the 6th man. Solo's shooting is what's holding him back in my opinion. He's decent on defense and his offense is..okay. BUT, we need to have a solid defensive guy coming off the bench early to give Paul a break. By the end of the game I see miles sitting and I see Solo playing but it just depends. Look at Manu on the spurs. He comes in as the 6th man but finishes the game in most scenarios. Solo and Paul will switch defenders. If anything I feel quite impressed with how Solo has played this year. Remember this is just his second year. Year 3 and 4 could be amazing if he keeps working on his offense.
              Indiana State University Alum. Hardcore Pacers fan. Racecar Driver in need of sponsorship.

              www.jjhughesracing.com

              Comment

              • docpaul
                Rebirth.
                • Jul 2006
                • 4539

                Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

                Originally posted by McKeyFan
                Spot on. This is Lance's problem, and nothing else.

                He has the ability to be a great player. In fact, he is very close to it. But unfortunately he has enough talent to not work his @ss off to be a great shooter (like most players must do). He got by with it until this year.

                Lance can still be great; but he's going to have to want it.
                As much as I love the kid, his "injury break" is starting to smell funny to me. It's starting to feel a little like malingerer to me, as the kid was strong and healthy as an ox while he was here. You couldn't keep the kid down longer than a game or two.

                Methinks he's unhappy which isn't a good look for a well paid starter.

                Comment

                • Grimp
                  Member
                  • May 2013
                  • 12423

                  Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

                  Originally posted by Guardshock
                  Exactly. I really enjoy guys that are mellow headed. Cj Miles, Stuckey, Watson, Hill, Solo, Lavoy. There's more I'm sure. I just hate players that act like Gerald green and Nick Young.
                  What's wrong with having a little fire in your belly? I like Swaggy more than I do Gerald. Swaggy is a pure scorer and pure shooter and can work off the dribble. Gerald is not that good off the dribble although he is a freak athletically. I don't mind having either player here. I think Lance was toxic to the team, I wouldn't want him back. GG I think had a rough time here in his first year and the front office wanted to just dump him. He's gotten better in Phoenix, as for Swaggy he's just confident. To a fault? Maybe but he's harmless. Neither of these guys are having serious off the court issues or taking shots detrimental to the team like Josh Smith was. So I think they'd fit here.

                  I think Frank didn't know how to use Green that well, and maybe that's because he hadn't evolved as an offensive coach yet. I think Swaggy would fit here nicely. Both guys listen to their coaches, they just have pilts in their game. No one is perfect though, and both are more talented than Lance. Green is far more athletic and Swaggy is a far better shooter/scorer. Like it or not, Green and Nick will play out their careers in the NBA while it looks like Lance could be close to being out of the league at this rate.

                  Comment

                  • CableKC
                    Member
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 36687

                    Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

                    Originally posted by Grimp
                    No one is perfect though, and both are more talented than Lance. Green is far more athletic and Swaggy is a far better shooter/scorer. Like it or not, Green and Nick will play out their careers in the NBA while it looks like Lance could be close to being out of the league at this rate.
                    I know that it's a matter of opinion.....simply cuz you highly value athleticism and streaky shooting/scoring above play making and court vision.....but I don't think that Young or Green is more talented than Lance is.

                    Lance can be a better overall Player ( key word being "can be" ) that has a higher ceiling than both Green and Young combined.....the problem is that we don't know if Lance will ever reach that potential. Even I don't think that Lance's career will be over any time soon.....he simply put himself in the worst situation to improve/develop himself. At worst, beyond his days in Charlotte..... I would suspect that Lance would mature a little...sign with a better fitting Team and then level off while having a similar type of career as Green and Young.......Journeymen that go from Team to Team filling whatever role that that they are best served to fill.
                    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                    Comment

                    • Grimp
                      Member
                      • May 2013
                      • 12423

                      Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

                      Originally posted by CableKC
                      I know that it's a matter of opinion.....simply cuz you highly value athleticism and streaky shooting/scoring above play making and court vision.....but I don't think that Young or Green is more talented than Lance is.

                      Lance can be a better overall Player ( key word being "can be" ) that has a higher ceiling than both Green and Young combined.....the problem is that we don't know if Lance will ever reach that potential. Even I don't think that Lance's career will be over any time soon.....he simply put himself in the worst situation to improve/develop himself. At worst, beyond his days in Charlotte..... I would suspect that Lance would mature a little...sign with a better fitting Team and then level off while having a similar type of career as Green and Young.......Journeymen that go from Team to Team filling whatever role that that they are best served to fill.

                      Lance is a better attacker off the dribble than both players true. Physically Lance is also bigger and stronger, able to bounce off people in the lane and post up guys like Wade. I agree from that aspect he's better, but until he learns how to consistently shoot the ball? He will never have a ton of value. And also until he learns how to dribble the ball in an effort to go somewhere with it. Not dribble the clock down. Swaggy goes places when he takes his man off the dribble, Lance seems more set on embarrassing the defender and earning a highlight.

                      But in the end, I think trading Green for Scola was business. Lance seems to have really rubbed some of his teammates the wrong way. Even Paul gave pause when asked if he wanted Lance back.... a laid back guy like Paul even paused for a second. Green never pissed off his mates, seems Vogel didn't know how to use him, Larry wanted Scola, so the deal made sense. I think that trade actually was even.

                      Although Green looked good in Phoenix for awhile there are still games where he vanishes on the offensive end in Phoenix. And Plumlee, who looked good his first season in Phoenix has now been replaced by Len. Plumlee has never evolved in his game. Now, he's not blocking as many shots and rebounding as much as he used to. While his brother Mason seems like the far superior player.

                      Scola adds more to this team than just scoring, he's also a good locker room guy. While losing Green's athleticism and shooting for an aging vet in Scola hurts somewhat? I really think Plumlee has flamed out as a player and will never be anything other than a garbage guy who can bring some energy off the bench, block a few shots, and grab some boards. But offensively he has NO game and never will. Plus he has bad hands, not as bad as Ian but pretty close when it comes to around the rim game.

                      So that trade doesn't look so bad now.

                      Comment

                      • Guardshock
                        Happy to be a fan
                        • Oct 2014
                        • 861

                        Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

                        Honestly Grimp, at this point in Lance's career, I consider Lance equal to Nick Young and Gerald Green in their production and their cocky/over confident stupid shooting/pouty personalities. All three players can be good players but in their own right they can all be horrible too.
                        Indiana State University Alum. Hardcore Pacers fan. Racecar Driver in need of sponsorship.

                        www.jjhughesracing.com

                        Comment

                        • Grimp
                          Member
                          • May 2013
                          • 12423

                          Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

                          Originally posted by Guardshock
                          Honestly Grimp, at this point in Lance's career, I consider Lance equal to Nick Young and Gerald Green in their production and their cocky/over confident stupid shooting/pouty personalities. All three players can be good players but in their own right they can all be horrible too.
                          I think GG is playing with a chip of his shoulder a bit, due to the trade. Swaggy I think has rounded his game a bit more into some consistency. Lance pouts at times but he always looks angry. Swaggy seems to really enjoy the game of basketball. Lance seems to be more angry at times than pouty. Not sure if he feels he has a lot to prove but Lance seems pissed more often than not.

                          Comment

                          • CableKC
                            Member
                            • Mar 2005
                            • 36687

                            Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

                            Originally posted by Guardshock
                            Honestly Grimp, at this point in Lance's career, I consider Lance equal to Nick Young and Gerald Green in their production and their cocky/over confident stupid shooting/pouty personalities. All three players can be good players but in their own right they can all be horrible too.
                            The difference is that Young and Green have hit their ceiling....whereas Lance hasn't hit his ceiling yet. Now, its entirely possible that Lance won't ever reach his potentiall and what we see of Lance now is what we will see of him.....but I think that he will still improve given the right situation, what he himself does to improve his game ( such as improve his outside shooting ).

                            In other words, Lance is still considered an unfinished product....whereas with Young/Green, what we see of them now is what we will see of them for the rest of their careers.
                            Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                            Comment

                            • Grimp
                              Member
                              • May 2013
                              • 12423

                              Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

                              Originally posted by CableKC
                              The difference is that Young and Green have hit their ceiling....whereas Lance hasn't hit his ceiling yet. Now, its entirely possible that Lance won't ever reach his potentiall and what we see of Lance now is what we will see of him.....but I think that he will still improve given the right situation, what he himself does to improve his game ( such as improve his outside shooting ).

                              In other words, Lance is still considered an unfinished product....whereas with Young/Green, what we see of them now is what we will see of them for the rest of their careers.

                              True, but when Nick and Gerald got to their new teams there was never this strong dislike between them and the coach. Lance landed in Charlotte a few months ago and right out of the gate it was a disaster. I mean that's such a rare thing.
                              Last edited by Grimp; 01-06-2015, 08:26 PM.

                              Comment

                              • BlueNGold
                                Banned
                                • Aug 2005
                                • 32249

                                Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

                                Originally posted by Since86
                                I'm not trying to erase last year. I'm trying to get you to explain how Lance looking awful in Char means that Lance Stephenson is the straw that stirred the Pacers drink. If Lance was such a good player, that he's the missing piece for the entire franchise that it all hinged around him, then how in the f-ing world is he so damn awful in Char? It doesn't make one bit of sense.

                                You give the "Troy Murphy" criticism of players who can put up bad numbers on a bad team, and yet your lover can't even do that. The only time Lance has been Lance, has been when Paul has been there to hold his hand. You mock Roy, or other players like GHill about their struggles, and then you have every excuse under the sun for Lance. It's awfully funny to watch you squirm now that your standards are being applied to your favorite.
                                The King of Straw Men. I never said that it all hinged around him or that he was the straw that stirred the Pacers drink....or much else you attribute to me.

                                Also, nobody is saying he isn't stinking in Charlotte. Where did I use his failure in Charlotte to prop him up?

                                As for Charlotte, it is irrelevant to whether or not Lance is a talented ball player. You know what Bird thinks yet you deny it. Mark Boyle is on record stating that the two most talented players on the team, at a time Granger was in Indy, were Lance and Paul George. Stuff that one up your straw man's nose dude! The fact is, it is a failed situation and there are explanations for that but you just don't want to believe it because:




                                What I have said many times is that without Lance (or an adequate replacement at SG), we are not contending. So far, I see several pretenders and they do not impress.

                                As for your talk about Charlotte you can keep on ...but it will never change the fact he played very well on the Pacers last year and was key to them being competitive. It was not just Paul George. It was the combination that made this team great last year.

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