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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Update: Avatars/Signatures need to be free of political figures. The board will be closing soon.

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  • Update: Avatars/Signatures need to be free of political figures. The board will be closing soon.

    Folks,

    I've reached a point where I'm strongly considering shutting down this board.

    I've been asked to first open a thread to allow those of you who want it to stay to plead your case as to why it should stay, but more importantly why it can and will improve to the point where it's worth keeping.

    I'll be honest, It's unlikely I will be persuaded, however you never know. Someone might have a brilliant idea and I'll feel compelled to give it a go. Or we might have an overwhelming number of responses asking for it to stay, and that might save it.

    This is your chance to try to save this board. Plead your case.

  • #2
    Re: Make your case to save this board

    Can you give me the exact reasons as to why you want to shut this board down?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Make your case to save this board

      I can only think of one benefit that will be difficult to replace. This has been used as a convenient "drop box" to move threads when basketball talk turns political (race issues, etc.).

      This forum is getting worse and worse as the internet bloggo-crackpot world continues to take over the national news. The rate at which people report spin as fact and repeat garbage stories designed to connect the unconnected seems to be increasing.

      I don't need to see any more stories connecting Obama with Africa and Islam the way I don't need to see any more "right wing secret cabal" stories on other sites.

      I respect the desire to maintain a spirit of freedom of speech on the message board. But there's also a need to keep PD a good place as a whole. Any more, this is just feels rotten to me.

      Looking in all of the forums there is generally a sense of good natured fun. Even when things get heated in the main forum, you're still talking about recreation (watching and playing basketball). There's nothing wrong with maintaining a "topic" standard for the various forums.

      In the end, this forum is exposing the worst in many posters, myself included. It's the only section of PD that does this. All others seem to have an atmosphere of fun and camaraderie.

      For what it's worth,

      LA
      “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

      “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Make your case to save this board

        Simply stated, I don't like what politics does to Pacers Digest. That's the bottom line.

        It is my opinion that the bad out weighs the good.

        Not to be overlooked, PD is meant to be a sports forum 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

        Let it be noted that if/when this board goes, avatars/signatures referencing political figures (such as the Obama one I currently have) will be out as well.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Make your case to save this board

          A few weeks ago when Peck posted the Plea for Civility thread, I would have been strongly opposed to closing this board. Now however, I can see that the posters he was targeting with that thread have become even more unglued, spewing racist garbage subtle or not, and a general intolerance and willful ridicule of any and all opposing viewpoints. In my mind, this is not what Pacers Digest is about. It's a basketball forum first and foremost, and if those folks want to plaster their small minded racial and religious rants there are plenty of other places for them to do it. I like reading about newsworthy events, and debating with the posters here. But debate isn't what I would call what is happening here lately. Anytime someone dares to voice their displeasure they are told by the vocal few to "grow some thicker skin" or "leave the big boys arena". What kind of garbage is that? I hope someone comes up with a great idea to save it, and we can move on from this, but it doesn't appear likely.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Make your case to save this board

            I'm just bumping this so that it appears as the representative thread at PD's top level.
            “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

            “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Make your case to save this board

              It's nice keeping this stuff out of the rest of the board...

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Make your case to save this board

                While it sounds conceded to think that I could save the Board I still plan on doing just that. I've decided to post more often in here and to focus on NON-election threads. This is because most of us have already decided on a presidential Candidate so there is no need to discuss it further. If there is real news regarding this like an upcoming rally, leadership changes, polls then sure we will need to hear it but things about Monica Lewinsky or Reverend Wright should just be deleted. We don't want them here and we don't need them. Take that to the shout box so I can count all over it. I'm not saying that all political posting should stop just that I don't care about the election/candidates right now and I think most of the posters that visit the board feel the same way. We've all decided and nothing will change that. (Much like your decision to close the Board) I Can Personally Guarantee that I won't be Starting any threads about presidential politics.

                Instead I'll focus on News Worldwide such as the recent Boycott the Olympics thread and Political/Social Opininion Threads like the one upcoming I have planned regarding recent changes in Cuba etc. There is a lot going on in the world and we can do better then to argue and bicker. An informative discussion would be nice and helpful to the cause. I know thats what people like me and Soup are always wanting. I'm sure others agree. Long story short we don't want a "Big Boys Arena" we just want a place that we can talk of wordly things with out getting on others nerves (Pacers) and other people getting on OUR nerves (Shout Box). A lot of posters take this board TOO seriously or not seriously enough. And no, I have no idea how to fix that

                BUT if you DO sack the board those same passionate posters will take their views into the Shout Box and Main Forum or worse, TCT, and it will get deleted, moved, or otherwise NOT IGNORED and the same problem will occur. Attackng the poster and NOT the topic at hand. Again, I have no way of stopping this but, IMO, deleting all of this is NOT the answer. I suppose you could make all thread come with a warning level. Maybe the image to the left of the title? For the hardcore politico's use a Yellow Triangle and the lighter side use a smiley or something simple like that. Its a thought at least!

                With moving and deleting things comes the enforcement of the NO POLITICS Rule and who would do that? I doubt Peck would since he only came back to the politics board to try to save it. And I know you don't like having to babysit posters here and I can't blame you for it. Someone will have to monitor the Community Boards to make sure that no talk of politics gets through and I have no clue who that would be.

                If we could erase all talk of politics, and I doubt we could, then I would be all for it. Just leave us a News/Intellectual Board so that we can discuss things like a new Oil Find in Brazil, talk religion, or contemplate the Theories of Mao! These things always get heated but know when to quit and those that don't quit SHOULD be banned from a particular Board.

                While that may seem like a whole lot of Mumbo Jumbo thats already been said before... my point is, that we need to hear more from good posters. Thats how we solve the problem. Bring back the good posters and ask the problem children to behave or leave.

                At the end of the day I DONT like seeing this topic brought up. With Elgin56 gone I thought things were getting better. There is still a problem child or two but we will always have a Batboy. Those kind of people always end up getting banned so why not do it sooner rather than later? The only thing that saves us is rational thinking and a respectful attitude.
                A trolled politics board (by any other name/location) is still a trolled board.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Make your case to save this board

                  I love politics, yet I've never felt the urge to post consistently in this section.

                  It's riddled with partisan bickering and seems to be based around biased garbage as opposed to actual discourse. Although that's similar to our domestic political system... Just too much moderation seems to be required to keep things civil and for a forum populated largely by adults I think that's an indictment within itself.

                  Get rid of it.

                  Wait, Elgin56 is gone? Nice.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Make your case to save this board

                    I don't think it is merely partisan bickering. I think the medium itself is flawed.

                    I am amazed how often someone gets indignant about a fairly reasonable or moderate comment. I am equally amazed at how seldom anyone asks for a clarification and then receives one without an acceleration of tempers.

                    This forum just doesn't seem to be a place where people can establish facts and reach concensus. Few even desire to do that, to begin with. Instead, it is a game of jumping to conclusions.

                    I support shutting it down if the moderators decide to. I can talk politics with my wife and coworkers.

                    Just please preserve PD as a place to talk Pacers and to Count.
                    Last edited by Putnam; 04-15-2008, 12:29 PM.
                    And I won't be here to see the day
                    It all dries up and blows away
                    I'd hang around just to see
                    But they never had much use for me
                    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Make your case to save this board

                      I need to go to class right now, but I plan on replying later this afternoon.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Make your case to save this board

                        Because everything will just get moved to the shout box?

                        I think Peck is doing it right. He's stated multiple times it's not his place to restrict free speech and thoughts/opinions. It's his place to moderate personal attacks.

                        Politics are always going to be heated, and the solution is simple. If you don't like it, then stay away from it. It's not that hard.

                        I don't understand why you think it's taking away from the entire site. LA and I are on complete opposite sides most of the time, but I don't think any more negatively than I do of KStat. Which is none. Hearing the opposite side makes you think, makes you defend or evaluate your own personal feelings.

                        I think it really goes back to the old rule that you just don't discuss politics, especially with friends. People feel strongly about what they feel. It's always going to bring out harsh tones, there's no denying it.

                        At the end of the day, you should be able to sit back and have a drink together knowing that differences is what makes this country so good. We're not mindless ants, like China for the most part, that can only access some parts of the internet or can't openly debate our government system.

                        I wish Peck wasn't a moderator, because his value to the entire board is at the very top and it seems that his posting has came to a crawl since then, but he is the right man for the job IMHO. Not as a slam to the other mods, but I view him as someone who can dissect the postings and not look at them with emotion.

                        The reasons are the exact same reasons why it was kept open months back.
                        Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Make your case to save this board

                          What Skaut said in the other thread. Burn it down.

                          Can't threads on the main board simply be deleted when they go political?
                          You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Make your case to save this board

                            Let me make one thing perfectly clear to all here on this board, Elgin is a personal friend of mine, his family and mine are Pacer season ticket holders and we sit together at the games. Elgin is the person who told me about PD and talked me into posting here. He made this place sound great, and I signed up and kinda forgot about it, until he recently told me of his banning. I have known Elgin since we were kids, and can tell you that he is the most honest man I have ever kown. This man joined the Marines right after high school graduation and served two tours of duty in Nam, where he lost his right eye and a good deal of his hearing. It pains me to see him being used as a scape goat for every bad thing that happens here on this board. He may be blunt, but he will give you an honest answer, something that seems to be missing on this board.

                            To me the problem is, there seems to be a few posters who like to disagree with most other posters and then run to the Mods when they get their feelings hurt. Simple solution would be for these super sensitve posters to stay away from the Politics board, but it seems that they revel in stirring the pot.

                            How difficult would it be to have the Politics board subdivided into two catergories, one for general topics and one for hard core politics? I have viewed the "Counting thread", and it seems that there are more off color jokes and comments there and it seems to work just fine.

                            It seems that this country needs more open discussions on the events going on in this country, rather than less discussions.

                            Censorship, is bad, whether it is closing a thread or closing a whole board, or banning some one because some don't like or agree with him.

                            Since you all don't want Elgin around, I am gone also.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Make your case to save this board

                              I think there might be a disconnect between the story you've been told and what actually happened, Country Boy.
                              “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

                              “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

                              Comment

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