"Chinamen": Offensive or not?
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Re: Did you see Stern's face
Lenny Bruce just rolled over in his grave on this (non) issue, and Carlin too if he were dead.
There are sounds we call words and there are intentions and meanings. I'm a lot more concerned with the intentions part than how someone produces sounds to convey that intention.
Oddly enough most people understand this idea but only in limited situations - thus the never-ending contradictions with "I can use that word because I'm one of them". ie, I realize the intention isn't negative when I say it, but if you say it I just ASSUME it's meant negatively.
I call BS on that, but it will never change I realize.
Frankly I'd much rather hear "This cracka is my favorite SOB in the world, I love this MFer, you can trust this b*****d with your life, even if he is white bread" than "You see this gentleman here? He's a liar, a thief, and a bigot. Someone get a gun or some rope so we can dispatch him from our presence for good because I truly despise him."
But that's just me, I'm insensitive like that.
And SiG, the reason friends can get away with it is because they do have the underlying understanding of the intentions.Comment
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Re: Did you see Stern's face
The Dude: Walter, the chinaman who peed on my rug, I can't go give him a bill, so what the **** are you talking about?
Walter Sobchak: What the **** are you talking about? The chinaman is not the issue here, Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.
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Re: Did you see Stern's face
No, it's definitely an insult. It's not AS offensive as those others, but it's at least mildly offensive.
No way in heck would I ever call someone a Chinaman to his face. It'd just be disrespectful.
(I almost inserted the "Unless we were close buddies..." thing, but I thought about it and realized I don't do that.I guess if I think about it, being close friends shouldn't permit the use of playful racial slurs.)
Completely agree. The fact that one might speak the language is irrelevant, and the fact that the chinese might use 'chinaman' to describe themselves doesn't make it OK for other races to use this term to describe them...any more than it's OK for whites to use the N-word just because we saw Chris Rock do it in a standup routine.
When I hear someone use the term 'chinaman' as a descriptive term for someone of chinese descent, I immediately think 'ignorant redneck'...certainly 'chinaman' is no more acceptable than referring to an African-american as 'boy' in our culture.Comment
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Re: Did you see Stern's face
Chinaman is an outdated term that refers to a Chinese man. At one time a casual English term similar to Englishman, Scotsman, and Frenchman, it was not defined as offensive by past dictionaries.<SUP class=reference id=_ref-0>[1]</SUP><SUP class=reference id=_ref-1>[2]</SUP> The term was used without any offensive connotation up until the 1980's. Today, Asian American organisations and others have objected to the use of the term as offensive,<SUP class=reference id=_ref-AsianWeek_0>[3]</SUP><SUP class=reference id=_ref-HaLingPeak_0>[4]</SUP><SUP class=reference id=_ref-ChiSun_0>[5]</SUP><SUP class=reference id=_ref-SanFran_0>[6]</SUP> and it has been defined as such by current dictionaries.<SUP class=reference id=_ref-2>[7]</SUP> However, the term is still used without the intent to offend,<SUP class=reference id=_ref-AsianWeek_1>[3]</SUP><SUP class=reference id=_ref-SanFran_1>[6]</SUP> and is also used as a self-referential archetype by authors and artists of Asian descent.
One of the links is to Ted Turner using the term a couple months ago, so why don't you PC cops go after him. Otherwise, leave this crap on the politics board.Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!
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Re: Did you see Stern's face
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinaman
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One of the links is to Ted Turner using the term a couple months ago, so why don't you PC cops go after him. Otherwise, leave this crap on the politics board.Comment
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Re: Did you see Stern's face
Lenny Bruce just rolled over in his grave on this (non) issue, and Carlin too if he were dead.
There are sounds we call words and there are intentions and meanings. I'm a lot more concerned with the intentions part than how someone produces sounds to convey that intention.
Oddly enough most people understand this idea but only in limited situations - thus the never-ending contradictions with "I can use that word because I'm one of them". ie, I realize the intention isn't negative when I say it, but if you say it I just ASSUME it's meant negatively.
I call BS on that, but it will never change I realize.
Frankly I'd much rather hear "This cracka is my favorite SOB in the world, I love this MFer, you can trust this b*****d with your life, even if he is white bread" than "You see this gentleman here? He's a liar, a thief, and a bigot. Someone get a gun or some rope so we can dispatch him from our presence for good because I truly despise him."
But that's just me, I'm insensitive like that.
And SiG, the reason friends can get away with it is because they do have the underlying understanding of the intentions.That's why I didn't chime in on it until we were debating whether it was an insult or not. IMO, it is.
And yeah, I know - I just don't care for it. Several of my friends throw the word 'chink' around to each other, and it doesn't really bother me, and is sometimes pretty funny. I just prefer to not say stuff like that, really.
Keggers, I think the definition you pulled seemed pretty consistent with something that would be mildly offensive. Some people are offended by it, some aren't. I didn't really think the discussion was PC crap, but whatever.You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?
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Re: Did you see Stern's face
I think anti-PC is the new PC.
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Hehe, nice, FlavaDave. I've got to actually watch that movie sometime. I've probably seen 1/2 of it in short little youtube clips.You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?
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Re: Did you see Stern's face
Sorry, if they call themselves Chinamen and it's not considered an insult (obviously not, or else they wouldn't do it), then it's not an insult.
Also, Kegboy's right: If you have something else to say about it, please start a new thread and get it off of here. In fact, I'll do one better, I'm moving these posts to a new thread.Comment
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Re: Did you see Stern's face
The fact that they address themselves by it is completely different. In the context of an American addressing someone in English, chances are it is going to be taken as an insult. I'd almost bet money on it.
But maybe this is just a difference in perspectives. Growing up I heard this term used derogatorily A LOT--maybe my childhood was just backwards.You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?
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Re: "Chinamen": Offensive or not?
this reminds me. A friend of mine thought it was so ridiculous in the Big Labowski how they keep saying Chinaman and how no one talks like that. However it seems pretty common out on the west coast.
I am however tired of how PC you have to be nowadays. Would we really be having this conversation if he was Irish and was called a Limey or French and called a Frog? probably not.
Anyways geezer Im guessing that was Cantonese, I speak a bit of Mandarin myself.Hulk - "I'm 5 for 5 from the line. I should shoot technicals now."Comment
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Re: Did you see Stern's face
My point is, one should be offended by intent, not language.Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!
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