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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

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  • Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    he's filed suit:

    http://www.boston.com/business/ticke...p1=MEWell_Pos1

    A Buzzards Bay man has filed a civil rights lawsuit against The Scotts Company, the lawn care giant, which fired him after a drug test showed nicotine in his urine, putting him in violation of a company policy forbidding employees to smoke on or off the job.

    The suit, filed today in Suffolk Superior Court, is believed to be the first in the state brought by an employee who was terminated for engaging in legal activities away from the workplace.

    Scotts announced last year that it would no longer employ smokers, a policy company officials said was motivated by a desire to improve employee wellness and drive down healthcare costs. But civil libertarians say the policy is a violation of personal privacy rights, and could be used to mask age discrimination or other illegal behavior.

    "Employers should be greatly concerned about how employees perform their jobs and what happens in the workplace, but how employees want to lead their private lives is their own business," said Boston lawyer Harvey A. Schwartz, who represents Scott Rodrigues in his lawsuit against Scotts, which is based in Marysville, Ohio.

    "Next they're going to say, 'You don't get enough exercise' or 'Both your parents died of a heart attack at age 45 so we don't want to hire you because you're more likely to need medical care,' " Schwartz said. "I don't think anybody ought to be smoking cigarettes, but as long as it's legal it's none of the employer's business as long as it doesn't impact the workplace."

    Scotts officials could not be reached for comment.

    The case illustrates the latest in a series of aggressive anti-smoking policies being adopted nationwide. In Massachusetts last year, a Boston Housing Court jury ruled that a South Boston couple could be evicted from their apartment for heavy smoking, even though smoking was allowed in their lease.

    Rodrigues, 30, a pack-a-day smoker when he was hired by Scotts earlier this year, was fired in September after a drug test showed high nicotine levels in his urine. At the time of the test, Rodrigues was down to about a half-dozen cigarettes daily, but he believes the test may have registered nicotine in his system as a result of the Nicorette anti-smoking gum he had been chewing in an effort to kick the habit.

    "That was the really crazy thing -- I was trying to stop smoking," he said.

    Rodrigues said he decided to file suit because, "What's to make them stop at just cigarettes? If they're a Republican company, can they try and figure out who you vote for and if you vote for the Democrats they'll fire you? What if you don't want to hire women, so if you have Y chromosome in your drug test you fail?

    "It sounds a little extreme," he added, "but it also would have sounded extreme to me five years ago if you told me you could be fired if nicotine is found in your drug test."
    (By Sacha Pfeiffer, Globe staff)


    Posted by Boston Globe Business Team at 01:56 PM
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

  • #2
    Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    I'm searching hard for the problem here. I MIGHT have some sympathy if the policy had changed since he was hired but (if I read this correctly) he was hired with the policy in place.

    Actually, I wouldn't have any sympathy whether the policy had changed or not but I would think legally he'd have a case if it had. But as it stands... He came into it with his eyes wide open (even if his lungs are not). The judge should throw this out of court and not even let it get legs.

    Smokers don't get much sympathy from me. Many are just too inconsiderate of non-smokers... let alone their own health and their family around them. It's no wonder cities are banning smoking in public. ...Altho I guess I am getting of topic.



    -Bball
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

      I don't think he can win the case and I don't think that he deserves MUCH sympathy,

      but if he was genuinely trying to quit, then I think the right thing to do is to give him one chance to do that and be clean in say 6 months. But I agree that legally they don't have to.
      The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

        Somebody clarify for me... can you fail a nicotine test for chewing nicotene gum?

        We had to move out of our condo, in part because the people below us smoked so much that my wife couldn't stand to be inside.

        ps. I keep reading it as "a 30-pack-a-day smoker."
        This space for rent.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

          Apparently, a few people still believe that second hand smoke doesn't kill.

          Well, I'll show them; we'll fire some guy in boston.
          You Got The Tony!!!!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

            It just goes to show that most of us really do live under oppressive tyrannies even still. They are just private instead of public. I honestly think that we need laws to make corporations more democratic.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

              If a company hires me and it is clear that I can't wear pink underwear and yet I decide to wear it anyway, then yes they should fire me.

              No one is forcing me to work for such a company

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

                Originally posted by Anthem View Post
                Somebody clarify for me... can you fail a nicotine test for chewing nicotene gum?

                Yes, a positive test can result from using the nicotine chewing gum or the transdermal patches. It really depends on the individual's metabolism, but if you ingest it, you must excrete it.

                The better test would be to analyze for Cotinine, the major metabolite of Nicotine in urine. Cotinine is much easier to detect and does not break down in urine; whereas, Nicotine is metabolized very rapidly.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

                  Wow, what I can't believe is that nobody sees a problem with the policy in place. What/who the gives them a right to decide what the employee does at home?? If this isn't invasion of privacy I don't know what is.


                  I am a non-smoker but I truly believe that animals have far more rights than smokers do.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

                    Originally posted by Anxiety View Post
                    Wow, what I can't believe is that nobody sees a problem with the policy in place. What/who the gives them a right to decide what the employee does at home?? If this isn't invasion of privacy I don't know what is.


                    I am a non-smoker but I truly believe that animals have far more rights than smokers do.
                    What about animals that smoke?
                    You Got The Tony!!!!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

                      Originally posted by AesopRockOn View Post
                      What about animals that smoke?
                      LOL Gotta think about that one for a minute

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

                        Originally posted by Unclebuck
                        If a company hires me and it is clear that I can't wear pink underwear and yet I decide to wear it anyway, then yes they should fire me.

                        No one is forcing me to work for such a company
                        That's true now, but it's what has to end. We would never put up with a government making unnecessary and invasive laws (or shouldn't), and we shouldn't put up with corporations doing it either.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

                          I think it is a legitimate to do so because Rodrigues would undoubtedly want Scott's to pony up for his medical bills. I might agree with 3Ball if the situation involved UB and his underwear or the like...
                          Originally posted by Natston;n3510291
                          I want the people to know that they still have 2 out of the 3 T.J.s working for them, and that ain't bad...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

                            Originally posted by 3Ball View Post
                            That's true now, but it's what has to end. We would never put up with a government making unnecessary and invasive laws (or shouldn't), and we shouldn't put up with corporations doing it either.
                            There is a huge difference you are overlooking. Gov't laws effect everyone, corporation rules for their employees only effect the employees. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK FOR THEM. Why should I care if RCA makes their employees wear uniforms - or submit to drug tests - if I don't believe in wearining uniforms or submitting to drug tests - then I should work for another co.

                            If the company I work for decides they aren't going to celelbrate Christmas - and I'm a huge believer in Christmas and afterall we are talking about religion - I have two choices, either learn to live with it, or quit. I shouldn't sue.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

                              I agree with Unclebuck 100%.

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