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2020-21 Indiana Athletics thread

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  • Originally posted by Bball View Post
    I sense two mistakes by Tom Allen (not necessarily only two mistakes but 2 big ones among others). Am I wrong?

    #1 Managing expectations.
    IU had lofty fan expectations after last season. IU had lofty media expectations after last season. IU entered the season ranked in the top 20.
    In hindsight now, no way was that ranking deserved, except based on last year. Tom Allen had to know/see the team was not a top 20 team and the potential was there to struggle. There were also questions about Penix' recovery and those seemed to be answered quickly by "He was not ready either mentally, physically, or both to be the same QB he was last year".

    I don't recall Allen doing much to temper those expectations. If anything, I'd think he should've been both tempering expectations and using that as motivation for the team to tell them they aren't a top 20 team and last year was last year and this is this year.

    #2 I'm wondering if not only were the team's heads blown up too much, but so were Allen's (and by extension the entire coaching staff). I'm starting to think they ALL believed the hype and weren't ready to have a target on their back, let alone have a normal post-Covid football season, nor realize last year is over and this was to be a brand new year with some player losses, without a lot of depth, a QB coming off a major injury (with durability concerns anyway)....


    -----
    I'm having a hard time imagining the team could be this bad/weak/uncompetitive without some season preparation flaws. And with the hindsight for everyone to see this team is far from top 20, I'm not sure how the coaching staff didn't see it early and get ahead of it managing expectations. That doesn't mean saying "We're going to suck..." but that means saying "We're going to have to work twice as hard because we're not as good as last year right now". "We're not the same team as last year and players have to realize that. We ALL have to realize that. This season could go the wrong way fast if we're not careful and everyone do their parts".

    EDIT: I'm not talking problems with a lack of winning as much as problems with even being marginally competitive. IU isn't even in the same zip code. If you can't even be competitive then of course a lack of winning is going to follow. It would be different if IU was hanging close and just unable to close the deal against these ranked teams, leading to the record they have.
    I specifically recall putting the kibosh on my buddies talking (last season) about this year finally beating OSU. They'd be down, new QB, we'd be at home, returning most of our guys, we were right on the cusp in Columbus, etc. I understand the enthusiasm and momentum, but realistically? So that's the expectations you're talking about. It was the confidence with which they were projecting, too. Understandable wanting to will it given the excitement of last regular season.

    I honestly was expecting some regression this season. Last season seemed too perfect, as enjoyable as it was. COVID, B1G down, offense unstoppable, miraculous finish to beat PSU in opener, overcoming yet another Penix injury to win at Wiscy, etc. Now live fans, no Whop and no Scott, B1G comp back to more typical levels, and our non-conference schedule turning out to be extremely difficult. I just wasn't expecting to be in a position where we'd (essentially) have to run the table to be bowl eligible. Not to mention how implausible running the table seems at this point given our dismal play, and now possibly a second QB lost.

    I don't know what you do as a coach if you have any inkling of any of this. I don't know if you go public so fans get the drift, but I'd think within the team you'd be doing it. I refuse to complain about Allen with what he's done in light of our historic losing as a program. He's earned the right to have a mulligan of a year. But I will point out one key concern I have with our direction/trends during his tenure.

    The one area where there's been a significant drop off between he and Wilson is the offensive line play. We won last season despite a mediocre run game. What success we did have was predicated more on Scott's individual effort and style and being fed a lot of carries. This year looks the same or worse in terms of oline's ability to open any consistent running lanes. I think Carr is a very talented back who were wasting with awful blocking. Long-term, you aren't going to win consistently without a better run game. I don't know if that's recruiting, o-line coaching or what. But it needs to be addressed. And now it looks like we're back to a QB cupboard is bare scenario again.

    I just hope we can survive this humiliating and humbling campaign without completely undoing the positive momentum achieved by Allen and the team the last couple years. It would be awesome to miraculously get to 5-6 heading into the Purdue game (even if losing is all but a given). As others point out here, though, just getting any win right now feels like an unscalable mountain.





    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

    Comment


    • ^You both hit the nail on the head. Things are more “normal” this year, and one of those normal things is unfortunately IU falling back to Earth. I’m not going to pile too much on Allen because he made IU more relevant for a couple years than I ever thought they’d be, but this year has been a massive disappointment. What’s frustrating is that we used to have those teams that could put up a ton of points, but couldn’t stop anyone. Now we can’t score at all.

      I know I’ve beat this dead horse a bunch, but this year really highlights what missed opportunities those bowl games were - especially that Tennessee one. When you’re IU football, winnable bowl games against SEC teams don’t come around too often. We flat out blew that game.

      Comment


      • It was really disappointing to see the team basically just pack it in after Tuttle was hurt. Throwing some no name walk on scrub to the wolves like a human sacrifice. That isn't how Allen has built this program. You can tell everyone around the team is shook from what is happening this season. Just seems cursed.

        That decision also left your defense completley out to dry....again. I'm just not sure what was going on there. I get wanting to protect your star freshman QB and not send him out in bad weather behind a shakey oline against OHio State, but just call covservative plays. Maybe they were trying to protect his RS status I don't know, but still just disappointing.

        Having said that, losing Tuttle on a TD play right after what was arguably the best offensive drive of the entire season against Ohio State at home pretty much sums up the kind of luck we have had this year against this absolutely brutal schedule.
        Last edited by Trader Joe; 10-25-2021, 12:51 PM.


        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bball View Post
          I sense two mistakes by Tom Allen (not necessarily only two mistakes but 2 big ones among others). Am I wrong?

          #1 Managing expectations.
          IU had lofty fan expectations after last season. IU had lofty media expectations after last season. IU entered the season ranked in the top 20.
          In hindsight now, no way was that ranking deserved, except based on last year. Tom Allen had to know/see the team was not a top 20 team and the potential was there to struggle. At least he should've known. There were also questions about Penix' recovery and those seemed to be answered quickly by "He was not ready either mentally, physically, or both to be the same QB he was last year".

          I don't recall Allen doing much to temper those expectations. If anything, I'd think he should've been both tempering expectations and using that as motivation for the team to tell them they aren't a top 20 team and last year was last year and this is this year.

          #2 I'm wondering if not only were the team's heads blown up too much, but so were Allen's (and by extension the entire coaching staff). I'm starting to think they ALL believed the hype and weren't ready to have a target on their back, let alone have a normal post-Covid football season, nor realize last year is over and this was to be a brand new year with some player losses, without a lot of depth, a QB coming off a major injury (with durability concerns anyway)....


          -----
          I'm having a hard time imagining the team could be this bad/weak/uncompetitive without some season preparation flaws. And with the hindsight for everyone to see this team is far from top 20, I'm not sure how the coaching staff didn't see it early and get ahead of it managing expectations. That doesn't mean saying "We're going to suck..." but that means saying "We're going to have to work twice as hard because we're not as good as last year right now". "We're not the same team as last year and players have to realize that. We ALL have to realize that. This season could go the wrong way fast if we're not careful and everyone do their parts".

          EDIT: I'm not talking problems with a lack of winning as much as problems with even being marginally competitive. IU isn't even in the same zip code. If you can't even be competitive then of course a lack of winning is going to follow. It would be different if IU was hanging close and just unable to close the deal against these ranked teams, leading to the record they have.
          I think the defense has more than backed up that ranking TBH. They played well enough to win against MSU and Cincy and frankly Iowa as well. You flip those two games and the team is 4-3 or (5-2) with remaining games against Minny, Maryland, Rutgers, and Purdue. We'd all be sitting here talking about going 8-4 or 9-3 (Loss @ Michigan) against a very difficult schedule and I think we'd be feeling very, very good.

          However, I don't think anyone really accounted for the razor thin margin IU's offense played with last season. Sheridan's play calling put a ton of pressure on the defense and on not turning the ball over at all. If you look at last year's team, IU's defense basically stood on their head for most of the big games while IU's offense took care of the ball and did just enough to get by leaning on Stevie Scott and Penix's arm talent connecting to Fryfogle and Whop (BTW, Whop made a lot of our dink and donk plays look a lot better than they are last year). The offense was not a world beater it was just good enough and hasn't been impressive at all since Deboer went to become head coach at Fresno. (BTW, they're 6-2 this year in his second year as head coach.) Now the offense is turning the ball over and Stephen Carr is showing why he's just not a power 5 lead running back, Penix gets hurt again, Tuttle goes down....Sheridan's been exposed badly for his conservative approach.

          So anyway, I'm not as negative as many of you, this year sucks big time, don't get me wrong, but I think with a new OC next year, they can bounce back as long as they can weather this mentally.
          Last edited by Trader Joe; 10-25-2021, 01:06 PM.


          Comment


          • The problem for IU is that they play in the Big 10 and therefore will almost always have a tough schedule. Some years will be worse than others, but the sheer nature of us playing in the Big 10 means it will almost always be at least pretty tough.

            We probably shouldn’t schedule anymore Cincinnatis so we can at least pile up as many non-conference wins as possible. But as far as the Big 10 is concerned, there are too many programs who are consistently very good to great. And if they have a down year they seem to quickly rebound the next year. Tough for IU to build up a consistent wins in a conference where there are just so many quality programs.

            At best, IU is a program that can periodically have the opportunity to make a bowl game that they can royally screw up. That’s our max potential.

            Comment


            • Now that football season is over... wait, it not? Anyway, Bobby Knight attends IU practice at Assembly Hall:
              https://www.insidethehall.com/2021/1...YK7PoC2X6hP_0c
              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

              ------

              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

              -John Wooden

              Comment


              • The football team will be lucky to win another game the rest of the year.

                Comment


                • Glad I didn't waste any time watching it. Surrender 500 yards to Maryland? And I thought the defense was solid.
                  I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                  -Emiliano Zapata

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by clownskull View Post
                    The football team will be lucky to win another game the rest of the year.
                    It's getting hard to find those 'sure' wins on the schedule...

                    IU definitely made a game of it today, but really, the same type of stuff that led to that 14-0 hole ultimately is why they still lost in the end. Blown defensive plays. They'd have what looked like a sure stop, and then one whiffed tackle later, the player was getting a first down instead of a short gain or even a loss. Or someone be WIDE open for a pass for the first down. Blown coverage.
                    They had some good defensive plays too... but... inconsistency will always burn you. And it did today. Even with the offense able to get some points, the inconsistency on defense today killed them. If it's not one thing... it's another.

                    I'll admit, when IU gave up 14 points, and was staring at a kick that would've made it 17-0, I was starting to wonder if this was the worst IU team I could remember. I know there's been some bad ones... but I can't remember any that were supposed to be good that ended failing so spectacularly.
                    I suppose the end of the Mallory years maybe. I don't remember what was expected of those last couple teams or exactly how they ended where they did, except after several years of IU having decent seasons under Mallory they really slipped at the end. And I can remember some super conservative play calling, even on 3rd and long with the team badly needing to get a drive going..
                    Last edited by Bball; 10-31-2021, 04:14 AM.
                    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                    ------

                    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                    -John Wooden

                    Comment


                    • well, i was looking at cbs sports college football rankings and iu is the highest ranked 2-6 squad in the country (78)
                      so, we at least got that going for us!
                      edit: ok so we have since fallen to 86 but, we're still the highest ranked 2-6 team in the country!
                      https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...ports-ranking/
                      Last edited by clownskull; 11-01-2021, 04:50 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Haskins is killing the hoosiers.

                        Comment


                        • When they are making the big prime time schedules next year, the first rule will probably be no wasting space on Indiana getting blown out by a superior opponent.

                          Comment


                          • So, the offensive line is pretty bad. Let's take the Penix situation out of the equation, what part of that O-line did IU think was going to be up to B10 standards so that they could compete offensively in the B10?

                            We know the secondary has dealt with injuries, so the defense kind of has some excuses, plus at this point, it's hard to blame them if they can't maintain focus with the offense not being able to score. But this offense???
                            It's definitely offensive.

                            Coaching miss? Recruiting miss?


                            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                            ------

                            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                            -John Wooden

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                              When they are making the big prime time schedules next year, the first rule will probably be no wasting space on Indiana getting blown out by a superior opponent.
                              I can't even watch at this point. We've plummeted right back to the depths of our historical ineptitude. Can't take the pain right now. I didn't expect to contend for the conference title. I was hoping we'd contend for .500-ish record. In other words maintain a shred of competitive decency. Not even close.
                              I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                              -Emiliano Zapata

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Bball View Post
                                So, the offensive line is pretty bad. Let's take the Penix situation out of the equation, what part of that O-line did IU think was going to be up to B10 standards so that they could compete offensively in the B10?

                                We know the secondary has dealt with injuries, so the defense kind of has some excuses, plus at this point, it's hard to blame them if they can't maintain focus with the offense not being able to score. But this offense???
                                It's definitely offensive.

                                Coaching miss? Recruiting miss?

                                Couldn't agree more on the o-line. I've been concerned about it since last year. It's just terrible. Might actually be the root of our offensive problems.

                                That an a penchant for QB's made of glass. But you have to take into account how often those QBs are running for their lives. Even if some of the significant injuries occurred well outside the pocket.

                                O-line talent/performance has dropped of the the face of the earth in the Allen regime compared to Wilson.
                                I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                                -Emiliano Zapata

                                Comment

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