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Indiana University Athletics Thread 2017-2018

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  • IU needs to hire a PROVEN high major coach, but that would require big bucks and a willingness by the BOT to cede some influence and power. Davis was an overmatched assistant, Crean was a yes man who never rocked the boat, and Archie only had mid-major head coaching experience. The one time IU hired a proven head coach, he turned the program around almost immediately. But he recruited the wrong types of players apparently and people in the athletics department worked hard to find a way to get rid of him. Funny how other schools had no problem snatching up Sampson’s players and recruits.
    Last edited by hoosierguy; 01-31-2019, 02:49 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
      Holy ****, I know it's only year 2 but...
      Thank you for this insightful contribution. Much appreciated.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by hoosierguy View Post

        Thank you for this insightful contribution. Much appreciated.
        I mean isn't he saying what we're all thinking lol


        Comment


        • First off, let me just say that I was not a huge fan of the Archie hiring. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it, either. I felt like we really needed to swing for the fences following Crean. I will also add that I swore not to criticize Archie much until Year 3, when he had mostly his guys on the roster. That said...some of the performances of the last couple of the years are the worst I've seen in my 33 years as a fan. Getting blown out at home by Fort Wayne last season was a big red flag, but the most disappointing thing about this season is that they have put up ZERO fight during the conference schedule. Getting blown out is the norm now, even by bad teams. They just look like they don't care, don't have any confidence, don't have any pride. And that falls squarely on the coach.

          I knew we weren't as good as we showed against Marquette, but we shouldn't be this bad, either.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Shade View Post
            First off, let me just say that I was not a huge fan of the Archie hiring. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it, either. I felt like we really needed to swing for the fences following Crean. I will also add that I swore not to criticize Archie much until Year 3, when he had mostly his guys on the roster. That said...some of the performances of the last couple of the years are the worst I've seen in my 33 years as a fan. Getting blown out at home by Fort Wayne last season was a big red flag, but the most disappointing thing about this season is that they have put up ZERO fight during the conference schedule. Getting blown out is the norm now, even by bad teams. They just look like they don't care, don't have any confidence, don't have any pride. And that falls squarely on the coach.

            I knew we weren't as good as we showed against Marquette, but we shouldn't be this bad, either.
            Yeah, the lack of fire is the most damning thing. These guys get beaten down easy. As soon as Rutgers made a run to close out the first half, you could tell IU looked totally defeated. They just don’t have any fight in them.

            The Big 10 is a dogfight that wears teams down. You have to get right back up after getting punched in the mouth or you’re dead in the water. Instead of battling to scratch out of this streak, it just seems to get worse and worse. Losing to Rutgers is a low point.
            Last edited by Sollozzo; 01-31-2019, 04:39 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post

              You could almost say that getting Langford has been a bad thing because it’s made IU look bad for future recruits. Do you really want to go to IU when they couldn’t even figure a way out to win with Langford?
              I hear stuff like this all the time, and it always bugs me. Getting a 5 star recruit in your program is NEVER a bad thing. For years, all we heard was that top recruits in this state had no interest in IU anymore because the program isn't elite. Langford picked IU over Kansas, UCLA, UK, UNC and Louisville. It says something that IU can still win recruiting battles with those programs despite being far less successful recently.


              Noah Vonleh and Cody Zeller were horribly utilized, neither one of them improved any aspect of their game while they were here, and Vonleh didn't even get to play in a postseason game, but that didn't matter to Thomas Bryant. Kids don't care about previous teams or players, they care about their team and what they think they can do.

              Comment


              • Another thing I'm getting sick of hearing is that the fanbase is a detriment to this program. The fans aren't the reason Mike Davis was hired, or that Kelvin Sampson broke rules, or that we had Tom Crean well past his expiration date. The fans are fed up with having a basketball program that's been criminally mismanaged for two decades.


                And no, recruits aren't going to think twice about coming here because of what some knucklehead said on Twitter. UK has a coach who's brought them a banner, four Final Fours and never has any trouble landing elite recruits, yet there were fans calling for him to be fired after they lost to Seton Hall. As bad as you may think the IU fanbase is, I guarantee UK is 1,000 times worse when it comes to fan behavior.

                Comment


                • If anything IU’s fanbase is excessively patient. UK fans would have burnt down Lexington if they had to endure what IU fans have gone through the last twenty five years.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by LuckSwagger View Post

                    I hear stuff like this all the time, and it always bugs me. Getting a 5 star recruit in your program is NEVER a bad thing. For years, all we heard was that top recruits in this state had no interest in IU anymore because the program isn't elite. Langford picked IU over Kansas, UCLA, UK, UNC and Louisville. It says something that IU can still win recruiting battles with those programs despite being far less successful recently.


                    Noah Vonleh and Cody Zeller were horribly utilized, neither one of them improved any aspect of their game while they were here, and Vonleh didn't even get to play in a postseason game, but that didn't matter to Thomas Bryant. Kids don't care about previous teams or players, they care about their team and what they think they can do.
                    Those are good points.

                    Still just not a good look for a program when you get a player as hyped as Langford and miss the tournament.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by LuckSwagger View Post
                      Another thing I'm getting sick of hearing is that the fanbase is a detriment to this program. The fans aren't the reason Mike Davis was hired, or that Kelvin Sampson broke rules, or that we had Tom Crean well past his expiration date. The fans are fed up with having a basketball program that's been criminally mismanaged for two decades.


                      And no, recruits aren't going to think twice about coming here because of what some knucklehead said on Twitter. UK has a coach who's brought them a banner, four Final Fours and never has any trouble landing elite recruits, yet there were fans calling for him to be fired after they lost to Seton Hall. As bad as you may think the IU fanbase is, I guarantee UK is 1,000 times worse when it comes to fan behavior.
                      I agree, we have some of the best sports fans on the planet. For 25 years, the program has underdelivered. We last won a title in 1987 and our consistent blue blood results ended in 1993. So you have to be 40 to have any clear memory of IU being an elite program. More like 45 to be old enough to have appreciated it. I’m in my early 30’s and all I know is disappointment. My earliest memories are of Knight being a past-his-prime bully who couldn’t win tournament games. It’s all gone mostly downhill from there.

                      Yet every year the fans come flocking back for Hoosier Hysteria with their IU merch and their kids. And almost every year the program underdelivers.....yet the fans always keep coming out. It’s amazing . Like Hoosierguy said, Lexington would be burned down if their program sucked for as long as IU’s has.

                      IU has so many loyal fans across the state who didn’t even go to school at IU. The program has meant so much to the state for so many years and is ingrained in the culture here. So it’s just really really sad to see what’s come of it.

                      You can argue that IU’s basketball and football program’s combined are the biggest disappointment in the country given IU’s status as a flagship state school. It’s embarrassing.
                      Last edited by Sollozzo; 01-31-2019, 09:53 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Indiana Basketball: Is There a Locker Room Chasm on This Hoosier Team?

                        February 1, 2019 Mike Schumann IUBB 1
                        April 30, 2018.

                        At the time it felt like a day that significantly changed the direction of the Indiana University basketball program. When Romeo Langford pump faked towards the Vanderbilt hat and then chose the cream and crimson IU trident, it is beyond debate that change occurred.

                        Sitting here nine months later, it is the nature of what changed on that day that is still being examined — and may be for years to come.
                        “If you have one one-and-done your team is done.”
                        That’s what former Virginia Tech head coach and ESPN college basketball analyst Seth Greenberg said on his “Courtside” podcast yesterday with co-host Dan Dakich.

                        From the outside looking in, it is clear that something is wrong with this team. Every conceivable angle has been examined to this point. Dakich summarized the issues as “disinterested, disorganized, unathletic, can’t shoot and doesn’t like each other.”

                        That’s a lot to digest, but it’s that last point that hasn’t been discussed enough with this team. Is there a chemistry issue in the locker room? Greenberg certainly thinks so.
                        “It goes back to the Ben Simmons philosophy. You’ve got a guy that is a one-and-done, and his team is almost playing against him because they are tired of hearing about it.”
                        You shouldn’t read this incorrectly. This isn’t a diva situation.

                        Langford isn’t the type of young man that wants everything to be about him. Nothing that he is outwardly doing is creating a chasm in this locker room — but that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. And it doesn’t have to go so far as players not liking each other as Dakich suggested.

                        No, this is more about the broader challenges of creating team chemistry in the one-and-done era, and specifically what happens when you have just one such player.

                        Every player on this Indiana roster believes that they are an elite basketball talent — and to varying degrees, they are. The veterans on the team have been waiting for their opportunity to shine. Their friends and family have been pumping them full of hype for years.

                        In fact, the father of one player on this Indiana team took to Twitter to express his frustration (in a since deleted Tweet) that in essence, the offense was too focused on the superstars. Meanwhile, the inner-circle of the mega-star starts to grumble that the offense isn’t focused enough on the soon-to-be lottery pick. Credit – IU Athletics
                        We didn’t see it coming in April, but now it makes more sense. In comes Mr. Five-Star NBA Draft Lottery stealing the spotlight — that he doesn’t even really want. Does it have an impact on the team? With the benefit of hindsight — of course it does.

                        It would be an incomplete analysis to not mention the other major variable impacting this team right now. The Hoosiers have played the majority of the season with their top five reserves injured. No team in the country could come out of that unscathed. Practices are unproductive, and player development cannot happen when players cannot play.

                        The players coming off the bench right now for Indiana were never envisioned to play this season, and you can see why — they are producing next to nothing during this seven game losing streak.

                        But Greenberg has been watching less talented Archie Miller teams going back to his Dayton days. Those teams were known for their togetherness, and giving opponents a 40 minute dog fight. Now?
                        “I never thought that I would see an Archie Miller team this uninspired, this unorganized, this non-competitive, Greenberg said.”
                        There is more to it than just injuries. And Archie Miller didn’t forget how to coach. Something is clearly sucking the passion out of this team. From a harsh critic like Dakich all the way to a biased friend like radio voice Don Fischer, the one consistent criticism is a lack of passion.

                        What could be causing a group of 18 to 22 year old elite athletes with an amazing opportunity in front of them to be giving it less than their all?

                        Juwan Morgan came back to this team to to build his NBA resume. Now? He’s passing up late game shots to try to get the ball to Langford. Morgan should be the senior leader of this program, but the shadow evidently looms large.

                        The challenges extend off the court to the optics of the situation as well. How many times have you seen or heard Archie Miller make an example of Langford? Send him to the bench for poor play?

                        Again, this isn’t really about Miller or Langford — it’s about the realities of college basketball right now. If Miller goes overboard with Langford, the next one-and-done five-star, and his family, will be taking notes.

                        Greenberg put it this way —
                        “You don’t have everyone on the same page, because the one guy that is the one-and-done has a different set of rules in a lot of ways than everyone else. It happened with Markelle Fultz, it happened with Ben Simmons, and now we are seeing it happen with Romeo Langford.”
                        Maybe we should have seen it coming. Of course there are the Fultz and Simmons examples, but we’ve been down this road at Indiana.

                        It got somewhat lost in the chaos of the Kelvin Sampson debacle, but there was a major chasm on the 2007-08 Indiana team that featured IU’s last one-and-done megastar Eric Gordon. While much of the team was reportedly losing its way with drugs, Gordon was on an island just trying to steer clear of it all for a few months before the NBA Draft. Collectively, well, there was no collectively.

                        While the long term outlook is certainly better than it was in 2008, don’t expect some dramatic reversal of fortunes for Indiana here in February. At least not according to Greenberg —
                        “You can’t fix something like that. When you have guys that don’t like each other and don’t play for each other, you can have all the team meetings you want. Those team meetings don’t resolve anything.”
                        WIth De’Ron Davis, Zach McRoberts, Devonte Green and Race Thompson all expected to play this month and six of the final nine games at home, Greenberg’s theory will be tested.

                        But if Greenberg is right, the story of this Indiana team has already been written — and you just read it.

                        You can follow us on Twitter: @daily_hoosier

                        Find us on Facebook: thedailyhoosier

                        The Daily Hoosier –“Where Indiana fans assemble when they’re not at Assembly”




                        https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/indi...lRaCk0_qdmAeIg

                        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                        ------

                        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                        -John Wooden

                        Comment


                        • The above piece makes a lot of sense from the outside looking in. Thinking back, I remember being surprised the final play in the Butler game was drawn up for Romeo since he'd really done nothing special in the game.

                          This team is not playing like an Archie Miller team. Maybe this piece is onto something, or part of it anyway?

                          I don't think it can be discounted how the depleted bench has to hurt not only games, but practices. Maybe even a reason why Romeo's development has been rather disappointing from the standpoint of expectations of a one and doner who could've turned pro out of HS if the rules allowed it.
                          Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                          ------

                          "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                          -John Wooden

                          Comment


                          • Ok... I'm definitely thinking that piece is onto something. Why would IU go to Langford down the stretch like that. He's not a 'give him the ball and let him go to work' player.
                            It worked out the play before in regulation, barely, and it was an abysmal failure on the final possession.
                            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                            ------

                            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                            -John Wooden

                            Comment


                            • Wow.

                              You never know until the game is played.

                              Comment


                              • Even when we have a really good team, we never win at Michigan State. So now we win there when they're #6 and we're coming off of a 7-game losing streak?

                                Sports, man.

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