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Ya’ll in the wrong thread talking about masks and corona! This here the the thread about police reform and black lives matter type stuff.
The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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You can't get champagne from a garden hose. -
Right, but pardon them. People are so worried about that virus they can't think of anything else.Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
As for BLM, we've already discussed that it' not really about black lives. We know this because there would be protests in Chicago where most blacks are murdered and there would be speeches supporting children, marriage and manogomy....which is really the root of the problem because it leads to single parent households which veer into poverty and ultimate crime. Fix that and you fix it all.
But for now, BLM is actually two things. Some use it to blame law enforcement. That is both a real issue in some instances and an excuse to ignore the root cause. People don't really want to face the root cause because if you dig a little you know it's going to be very hard to fix. So blaming law enforcement is really an outlet for an incredible amount of frustration. Others, mostly white people, hate America and hijack BLM for other reasons including wealth inequality.
I do think the fact the radical element has taken it over really hurts the cause of making change. I feel sorry for the many reasonable people attempting to make change. So much of the correct messages are lost in the anarchy, cancel culture and other things that most reasonable people reject.Comment
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https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/202...e-decades.html
Seems way to early to call this any type of evidence but one month into defunding parts of their police force Portland is having it's highest murder rate in decades.
Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13Comment
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So basically, keep kicking impoverished black communities when they're down. It's all black people's fault. If they can't figure out these social issues, it must be something wrong with them. It 100% up to them to resolve the impacts of racism. Ignore 400-ish years of white supremacist history. Don't even consider that black people are disproportionately represented in environments that require significantly more struggle in order to achieve success as well as their disproportionate criminalization and incarceration rates and disproportionate health and health care challenges.Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
It's not really about black lives, but there are some reasonable people involved and it's been coopted by radicals? It's a real issue in some instances and an excuse for the root cause? Anarchy and cancel culture are BLM strategies, but not anyone else? White people hijack BLM? Black people in BLM don't support reducing wealth inequality? I wonder what other equality and justice issues black people in BLM don't stand for?
You're entire post undermines whatever fake moderation you are trying to convey. The Trump/conservative narrative is 100% about "cancelling" calls for progress and justice. It's being complicit in maintaining a white supremacist system. Our government has predominantly operated for 400 years as if black lives don't matter. BLM doesn't say all lives don't matter. It says the system and society need to value black lives more such that they are treated equally and justly. Black communities will continue to address issues that affect them, but will benefit in that effort from more just treatment and support in our society. We should focus on how we lift up those who struggle without continuing to constantly blame them.
Last edited by D-BONE; 08-02-2020, 02:02 PM.I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.
-Emiliano ZapataComment
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This strategy is used in the so called “failed states” in the Middle East and other countries, make it worse and then point out “see? we told you you needed a whole army to protect your a**”Originally posted by Peck View Post
Same strategy is been used right now for the post office, sabotage and make it worse so later you can tell people that privatization and selling it to the greatest mind in Jeff Bezos and amazon is the way to go.@WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!
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I do not work in law enforcement, but I am intimately familiar with the challenges. What people don't know is that the police and sheriff's departments have been working extremely hard to do better and be more effective and to be fair. There are centuries of "learnings" that you throw out when you defund/displace/delegitimize/dewhatever law enforcement.Originally posted by Peck View Post
So what I'm saying is, they are going to be pretty surprised when the land at the same place we are right now...assuming they want some semblance of peace in the streets.
Also, they are unlikely to find a formula that results in peace because they are attacking only a small aspect of the issue. There are a small number of problem officers. But there are an enormous number of problem people who every day make choices that cause these problems. And they refuse to accept responsibility.
This is why the thing isn't going to get fixed. People don't want to look in the mirror.
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Let me take this paragraph by paragraph because you are all over the place.
I am not sure where you get the idea I would kick any community or that it's not a team effort. What I am doing is pointing out specifically where the problem is and until that is admitted, the problem will continue. It's not 100% up to "them" or anyone and the fact is the system for many years especially starting in the civil rights era, affirmative action, quotas, government set asides, etc, etc, have been rightly trying to help. But Lyndon Baynes Johnson tried to do too much, or maybe it was intentionally evil what he did. The Great Society hurt the black community. Also, the issues with incarceration and health (and they are indeed real) are really symptoms of a problem that would be fixed if my suggestions were implemented.Originally posted by D-BONE View Post
No, BLM is absolutely not about black lives. If it were, there would be protests in cities where BY FAR most black lives are being snuffed out. It's really justice and I'm not saying some changes are not needed. But yes, white radicals have hijacked the movement out west and their focus is anarchy and essentially Marxism. The same people who were involved in Occupy Wall Street. Also, while I know there is wealth inequality that's about outcome not equality. I don't worship wealth like those people. People need to accept their lot in life and stop being envious and this has nothing to do with race even if some races are not as well off. Fact is, Asians have a by far average income in this country and I could not care less. Good for them. They prioritize education more than most and the results speak for themselves. People talk about their priorities a lot. Few actually have an objective view of themselves.Originally posted by D-BONE View Post
That's quite a rant yourself bro. I am not moderate and that's fine. Trump isn't the same as a conservative, btw. Conservatives are disgusted with him with the exception of his US SC choices. And no he brags about making things better for blacks so you are dead wrong about him. He would love to see their average wages rise.Originally posted by D-BONE View Post
Also, the fact is, the system has gone to incredible lengths to make things equal. It's now up to each and every person to make that happen. That includes some responsibility for all, not just some. A little introspection would be helpful and in fact is the only way things are going to get better at this point. There are some warts with the system. But if you think it's the problem at this point, you are wrong.Comment
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I do have to agree that this black lives matter movement has been hijacked, #1 by blacklivesmatter.com. Its really disgraceful how the media has let them waltz in and take over this conversation. 2. By white anarchists in the pacific northwest. Though alot of this is media driven.
I am not seeing anybody from this movement make a major push to have things like a national police registery, nor have we seen any national organization formed with the purpose to reaching out to police departments across all 50 states to enact some common sense reforms.
Instead all I see are T-shirts. I mean the BLM issue has corporate America by the balls. The funding would be there for some national organization to step forward and push the agenda of police reform.
I mean just look at the NBA, these guys are doing all their symbolic gestures and jersey slogans. But when it comes time to interview none of them are saying "hey I am working with this organization, and we are for reforming the educational system to get rid of uneven funding for schools based on property taxes. Its a huge problem in our education system. Please go to this website and join us in our fight" yada yada yada. If alot of players in this bubble are doing this to have the platform to affect social justice. Then they gotta get the TV broadcasts talking about these issues. You know how about Chris and Quinn talk directly about the school funding issue on every broadcast at halftime. Get some interviews on tape with these guys with out the masks on so we can properly hear and see the message.
I mean just pick one common sense issue like that and hammer it home for the next month. AND yes you also take some time to cover it in away that acknowledges folks like BlueNGold's views on it and then and then you can start building consensus and getting support around it.
IMPD has already done away with No Knock warrants, so incidents like a Breonna Taylor in Louisville shouldn't happen anymore here in Indianapolis.
You can't get champagne from a garden hose.Comment
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Just returning the bombastic rant favor, bro.Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
You yourself are pointing out just another aspect (Great Society) amongst many examples of our government's history where once again - regardless of party or approach of law/policy - we superficially advocated for black peoples. The spirit of Civil Rights was good, but the commitment to law/policy and the advancement of that law/policy has not been followed through on or improved strongly enough or consistently enough. Hence, we're back to the point where people are demanding better from the ground up.
How can you even continually spout the patriotic and capitalistic rhetoric and turn around and consistently opine that people need to accept their lot in life ? "Cancel" much? Sounds anti-American to me. In fact, rather smacks of dictatorship and corruption. Sure has nothing to do "with liberty and justice for all" and the "American dream".I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.
-Emiliano ZapataComment
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I agree moving the conversation towards specific reforms would be good. But I don't think the ideas aren't out there. I think a lot of them are and we need to see more serious social and political conversation around them.Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
I give NBA/WNBA credit. There's always a conflation of performative and authentic actions/strategies to attempt to encourage social/governmental change. Sometimes it's easy to tell one from the other. Other times they can overlap. I don't view these leagues and the players as in any way disingenuous or misguided. They are keeping the ideals in the public eye. Off the court you've got situations like LeBron working with Cleveland schools to open a school for at-risk students. You've got Tobias Harris pushing on the Breonna Taylor case specifically in an interview session. So I don't think there is a lack of commitment or sincerity. I would be fine with some voices proposing more specific ideas.
Public school funding - great example. No secret: suggestion of one pot equally distributed to all schools has been around forever. No serious discussion in lawmaking circles though. And LeBron's school doesn't address the school funding formula head on despite it's positive mission. Stay within education for a minute - free and low-cost breakfast/lunch is a vital, positive, wonderful program our public schools provide. That program did not pick up momentum until after the Black Panthers had instituted it in multiple urban centers reaching thousands of students. It built on and extended research that showed the positive contribution being nourished had on school experience and learning. Social movements spur systemic change.
No-knock warrants - It's great that many PDs around country are reviewing, revising, and/or abolishing! This particular issue is vile enough that it demands a national ban honestly. And in some instances these are not bans but modifications that will allow no-knocks under certain circumstances or temporary halts for now. So I agree it's positive progress, but it's not clear how resolution in practice will play out. And - most importantly - the complaints about no-knocks (just like disparities in school funding) have been around for at least 20 years. If you have no BLM and similar social movements, you don't get policy movement in the system.
So I am all for your suggestion to move specific proposals forward for debate and hopefully eventually systemic implementation. But you need the critical mass of social movements behind it to keep the pressure on.
Last edited by D-BONE; 08-03-2020, 09:58 AM.I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.
-Emiliano ZapataComment
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Disagree, I wouldn't waste one second trying to convince people like that as they are never going to change anyways, let them expire like the dinosaurs they are and keep it moving.Originally posted by graphic-er View Post@WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!Comment
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Hmmmmm... that's implying that a certain political viewpoint is strictly age limited. Do you really believe that?Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13Comment
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According to the polls it is, boomers and a bit younger groups got a similar view point.Originally posted by Peck View Post
Note that I'm not saying everybody but according to the polls is a majority.@WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!Comment
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