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  • BlueNGold
    Banned
    • Aug 2005
    • 32249

    Originally posted by Sollozzo

    Yes but there was also an economy that was boosted dramatically by the war effort. Today OTOH we have an economy that is temporarily grinding to an unprecedented halt. All of these services and items that were once in high demand are all the sudden not able to function.

    I don’t think people are soft. I think it’s quite the opposite really. People will get to the point where they can live with taking the health risk if it means they can have their life back, because a quarantined life with nothing to do and no money coming in is a miserable life even if you’re in perfect physical health.

    Plus war is easy to see with your eyes - especially back then when we faced such a global threat. Most people still can’t see the impact of this virus directly though (aside from the shutdowns obviously). Most people live in areas where the actual sicknesses so far have been minimal, but their lives are being shut down because of what might happen. It’s just totally unsustainable.

    I‘m not a medical professional or a scientist, so it’s useless for me to speculate about the virus itself. However, you don’t have to be a Nobel economist to realize that millions and millions and millions will be ruined economically and psychologically with this current “let’s quarantine for a while” path.
    What if I told you that quarantining may keep the death count at 50,000 or less in the USA and just letting it rip will lead to 4.2 million deaths?

    Don't people care about people anymore or is it just about them and their convenience? The government is going to cut checks. They already cut checks for say 750/month to millions of people on welfare. LOTS of people still have their jobs. LOTS of people will lose their jobs but a grand a month is enough for people to survive on especially if there are other steps to stop debt payments.

    Personally, I have already lost a fortune (thank you V for your support), but I don't care. Fact is, I'm going to die anyway and I'm not taking it with me.

    So if I lose everything, so what? It's just money. You can't replace people with money.

    Comment

    • BlueNGold
      Banned
      • Aug 2005
      • 32249

      Originally posted by vapacersfan

      Michael Barbaro✔@mikiebarb
      Cuomo during his daily preser. How long will this last?
      “It’s gonna be 4 months, 5 months, 9 months....we’re in that range.”
      “Start planning accordingly.”
      “Life is going to go. Different. But life is going to go on.”
      Stop hoarding. “The toilet paper is going to be there.”
      2,061
      5:48 PM - Mar 22, 2020
      I thought you guys liked Cuomo. He's right. It's going to be different for awhile. Time to grow up.

      Comment

      • vnzla81
        Member
        • Jul 2008
        • 68187

        Rand Paul is one of those garbage politicians making this crisis worse with his bs and now he got it.

        Luckily for him he gets socialized medicine and is going to pay cero for his treatment, he is also still going to get his goverment check like always.
        @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

        Comment

        • Sollozzo
          Member
          • Jan 2004
          • 27439

          Originally posted by BlueNGold

          What if I told you that quarantining may keep the death count at 50,000 or less in the USA and just letting it rip will lead to 4.2 million deaths?

          Don't people care about people anymore or is it just about them and their convenience? The government is going to cut checks. They already cut checks for say 750/month to millions of people on welfare. LOTS of people still have their jobs. LOTS of people will lose their jobs but a grand a month is enough for people to survive on especially if there are other steps to stop debt payments.

          Personally, I have already lost a fortune (thank you V for your support), but I don't care. Fact is, I'm going to die anyway and I'm not taking it with me.

          So if I lose everything, so what? It's just money. You can't replace people with money.
          People absolutely care about people. That’s why the country has pretty much come to an immediate halt Coast to coast in a short time. I would have never guessed that was possible, but it did happen. And it happened because people do care.

          But it’s unsustainable for a long time. It just is. COVID-19 is dangerous, but it’s not the only dangerous thing on Earth. There will start to be a host of new dangers and consequences if this lasts too much longer. I honestly don’t even think that’s a matter of debatable opinion.

          Comment

          • pacersgroningen
            Dutch Pacers Fan
            • Jan 2009
            • 1529

            Originally posted by BlueNGold

            If the USA had created this virus, we should own it. I actually think we would own it. So, rather than dangerous it's actually a fact. This virus originated in China. It is a fact the virus originated with bats. It's a fact the Chinese eat bats. The only thing they don't know is if the virus transferred from a bat at their wet market to a person or to some other animal and was later touched or consumed by a person.

            What's dangerous is what the Chinese do and that needs to be addressed. The viruses coming out of there may kill millions.
            I am not entering this part of the discussion. I was stating that people should not be allowed to reproduce because they have a different view (right or wrong, it does not matter) is not a good thing to say. Can you agree with me on that matter?
            Trying to enjoy every Pacers game as if it is the last!

            Comment

            • BlueNGold
              Banned
              • Aug 2005
              • 32249

              Originally posted by pacersgroningen

              I am not entering this part of the discussion. I was stating that people should not be allowed to reproduce because they have a different view (right or wrong, it does not matter) is not a good thing to say. Can you agree with me on that matter?
              Yes.

              Comment

              • Sollozzo
                Member
                • Jan 2004
                • 27439

                Originally posted by BlueNGold

                I thought you guys liked Cuomo. He's right. It's going to be different for awhile. Time to grow up.
                Hey I’ve been doing my part to abide by the rules. I’m staying at home as much as possible and haven’t been around a large crowd since that Pacers-Celtics game which was the day before this whole thing exploded in the US.

                But I’m not commenting from my perspective. I’m commenting on the abstract behavior of 300+ million people. I think it will be impossible to keep 300+ million people at bay for a long time. If it does actually happen, you’ll see a host of other serious consequences, that’s for sure.

                Comment

                • pacersgroningen
                  Dutch Pacers Fan
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 1529

                  Originally posted by BlueNGold

                  I consider the mortality rate to be the best indicator of how countries are handling the issue, not the number of cases. I actually think A LOT of people have had it who have never and may never be tested. IOW, the number of identified cases is kind of a fake number unless everyone in a country is tested and NO COUNTRY is close to that.

                  So look at the mortality rate and the DIRECTION of the mortality rate as compared to the number of tests.

                  So, we might have 15 people out of 1000 tests who die. They have about 90 per 1000 tests that die. Most people tested have certain symptoms so I think this is the best measure available.

                  The best measure of all is if we could test all people. That's not happening anytime soon. For now though, mortality rate is the best and as a nation...even if it's still terrible...we are doing much better than some countries.
                  Mortality rate is very much influenced by how many tests are available. In Europe far fewer tests are available. People with minor or medium symptoms are not being tested. So you will see they have a higher mortality rate in Europe. Goes without saying the US have done a better job at having tests available.
                  Trying to enjoy every Pacers game as if it is the last!

                  Comment

                  • BlueNGold
                    Banned
                    • Aug 2005
                    • 32249

                    Originally posted by Sollozzo

                    People absolutely care about people. That’s why the country has pretty much come to an immediate halt Coast to coast in a short time. I would have never guessed that was possible, but it did happen. And it happened because people do care.

                    But it’s unsustainable for a long time. It just is. COVID-19 is dangerous, but it’s not the only dangerous thing on Earth. There will start to be a host of new dangers and consequences if this lasts too much longer. I honestly don’t even think that’s a matter of debatable opinion.
                    The reason it may not be sustainable is because people in the USA are not cut of the same cloth as they were 80-90 years ago. People suffered tremendously in the Great Depression and they made it by following the rules. But today, people don't follow the rules.

                    So on that point, you are right. It may not be sustainable. But it's more a reflection of our society today. Instead of supporting each other, there are likely to be home invasions as resources become more scarce. Much more crime. It's sad but I am headed to the gun shop tomorrow morning. I'm not in a panic. But I am getting prepared.

                    Yet I am disappointed with our culture. For so many years this thing we call "progress" has resulted in a weaker society. One that cares more about its convenience than its people. So on that point I disagree. I don't think people care about people. They give it lip service. They are NOT willing to sacrifice and for that reason they really don't care.

                    Comment

                    • BlueNGold
                      Banned
                      • Aug 2005
                      • 32249

                      Originally posted by pacersgroningen

                      Mortality rate is very much influenced by how many tests are available. In Europe far fewer tests are available. People with minor or medium symptoms are not being tested. So you will see they have a higher mortality rate in Europe. Goes without saying the US have done a better job at having tests available.
                      Wow. I think you are the first person in the country to say the US has done a better job of having tests available.

                      But really, until the last couple days the US has NOT done better at having tests available. They were WAY behind Europe on that. And that happened because the CDC's initial package that went out had issues and they had to regroup.

                      So no, the US has not done a better job than most countries with having tests available. We are kicking butt on that right now, but that simply has not been the case until the last 48 hours or so.

                      Comment

                      • Sollozzo
                        Member
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 27439

                        Originally posted by BlueNGold

                        The reason it may not be sustainable is because people in the USA are not cut of the same cloth as they were 80-90 years ago. People suffered tremendously in the Great Depression and they made it by following the rules. But today, people don't follow the rules.

                        So on that point, you are right. It may not be sustainable. But it's more a reflection of our society today. Instead of supporting each other, there are likely to be home invasions as resources become more scarce. Much more crime. It's sad but I am headed to the gun shop tomorrow morning. I'm not in a panic. But I am getting prepared.

                        Yet I am disappointed with our culture. For so many years this thing we call "progress" has resulted in a weaker society. One that cares more about its convenience than its people. So on that point I disagree. I don't think people care about people. They give it lip service. They are NOT willing to sacrifice and for that reason they really don't care.
                        These are two totally different things though. In the WWII era, people were either occupied as a soldier on the battlefield or they were occupied providing for the war effort in the US.

                        This is completely different because you have a massive population of people with jobs which overnight became impossible to perform.

                        Most of these people aren’t selfish or soft or whatever other word you want to use. All most want is to provide for their families.

                        Almost all of these people care about stopping the virus. No one wants sick neighbors or a sick population.

                        However, there is one impossible scenario here: it will be impossible to keep this quarantine long term AND keep the economic/mental health of this nation. A few weeks sure, but life will rapidly deteriorate for millions if it lasts for months. I really don’t think that’s my opinion. I think that’s just rock solid fact.

                        Comment

                        • BlueNGold
                          Banned
                          • Aug 2005
                          • 32249

                          Originally posted by Sollozzo

                          Hey I’ve been doing my part to abide by the rules. I’m staying at home as much as possible and haven’t been around a large crowd since that Pacers-Celtics game which was the day before this whole thing exploded in the US.

                          But I’m not commenting from my perspective. I’m commenting on the abstract behavior of 300+ million people. I think it will be impossible to keep 300+ million people at bay for a long time. If it does actually happen, you’ll see a host of other serious consequences, that’s for sure.
                          On that point, I would have to agree. I cannot imagine everyone (or even a vast majority of people) in this country being on the same page. But there is hope. Both sides of the aisle are trying to tell people to quarantine and the liberals in NY, Illinois and California are locking it down. I could see martial law coming if people get unruly.

                          One thing about liberals in power. They will stomp on their people probably more than than the supposed fascist conservatives. That's what's happening right now.

                          But seriously. If people act up the national guard will come in and shut it down. The good people will be arming themselves. It will be a war the bad people will not win.

                          Comment

                          • pacersgroningen
                            Dutch Pacers Fan
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 1529

                            Originally posted by BlueNGold

                            Wow. I think you are the first person in the country to say the US has done a better job of having tests available.

                            But really, until the last couple days the US has NOT done better at having tests available. They were WAY behind Europe on that. And that happened because the CDC's initial package that went out had issues and they had to regroup.

                            So no, the US has not done a better job than most countries with having tests available. We are kicking butt on that right now, but that simply has not been the case until the last 48 hours or so.
                            Well, I compare it to my country in Europe. And I have not read that only people who are having major symptoms being tested is the case in the US. That's how I've gotten to that conclusion. The US is kicking butt now, where as we don't have an idea if or when more stuff might come available.
                            Trying to enjoy every Pacers game as if it is the last!

                            Comment

                            • PacerDude
                              It's just my opinion.
                              • May 2009
                              • 10049

                              Originally posted by BlueNGold
                              But really, until the last couple days the US has NOT done better at having tests available.
                              Care to share your numbers for this ??

                              Comment

                              • vnzla81
                                Member
                                • Jul 2008
                                • 68187

                                And as expected Mitch is coming up with some garbage bill





                                This people are f**** around

                                @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                                Comment

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