The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

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  • #16
    Re: Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

    Originally posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
    I guess I am just not as sold on Moncrief as some people are in this topic.
    Compared to Reggie yes I'm sold on him. Hilton is obviously better but Moncrief is way more productive to me than Reggie is at this point in time.


    • #17
      Re: Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

      Originally posted by Basketball Fan View Post
      Compared to Reggie yes I'm sold on him. Hilton is obviously better but Moncrief is way more productive to me than Reggie is at this point in time.
      Yeah and you also bet on youth over a WR having a good year in his age 37 season, which is almost unheard of, even for great receivers.


      • #18
        Re: Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

        Originally posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
        I guess I am just not as sold on Moncrief as some people are in this topic.
        I don't think Reggie could make that catch that Moncreif today made any longer. We have talent at WR with Nicks, TY, and Moncreif.


        • #19
          Re: Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

          Yeah i will admit I might be wrong about Moncrief. Still think theres a place for Wayne on the team though. In 4 WR sets and what not


          • #20
            Re: Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

            How about we make him some kind of WRs coach? I think his most valuable asset at this juncture is quite obviously his leadership. I'm fine with him playing another year as long as he doesn't expect to start. I agree that Hilton, Moncrief, Nicks are all better. However, whether Nicks is back or not I don't know. Wouldn't mind it myself.
            I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

            -Emiliano Zapata


            • #21
              Re: Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

              For the right price and how much they lean on him, absolutely bring him back. Reggie is still recovering from his ACL injury. I think he could be better next year. That experience is worth something. Another player is Bradshaw. IF they bring him back save him for the playoffs please or play him minimaly. He is such a threat as a receiver out of the backfield. But by NO means should they rely on him as 50% of the backfield. And as sad as it is I think the Richardson experiment needs to end.


              • #22
                Re: Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

                And before people cast off Nicks lets see what happens in the playoffs.


                • #23
                  Re: Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

                  Originally posted by owl View Post
                  And before people cast off Nicks lets see what happens in the playoffs.

                  is he on a 1-year deal?
                  Smothered Chicken!


                  • #24
                    Re: Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

                    I'm really torn on this one....
                    Age is against Reggie. BUT we don't really know how much of this year's (decline in) play we can attribute to age versus the arm injury. He's actually looked better since he replaced that mega-contraption arm brace with something smaller that looks like it would allow for a better range of motion. I'm sure there are still lingering affects of the ACL repair... and might always be... But to start the season he looked pretty darned good until the arm injury.

                    Then fast forward to that 80 yard 'should've been a TD' catch that ended on the 1 yard line and how painfully slow he looked to be running. But then he says he injured his groin with the twisting catch, not the tackle at the end of the run.

                    But give him the benefit of the doubt on all of that and he's still far, far, far on the wrong side of 30 to be confident of what he'll be next season.

                    But he also showed a lot of loyalty to this franchise when he chose to come back, take a "leap of faith" as Coach Pagano asked him to do, and brought some stability to Luck's first season.

                    I'm kinda hoping he shows that same loyalty now (and the organization to him), and if he wants to come back, he comes back at a bargain rate with no strings attached... and that both sides don't let money, pride, or ego get in the way.

                    Reggie Wayne is easily one of my favorite Colts. I'd be hard pressed to point to a Colt that I would put above him.
                    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.


                    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                    -John Wooden


                    • #25
                      Re: Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

                      If Reggie wants to come back I don't think there will be any resistance. I would prefer to see him come back in a coaching role with our young WR's, but if he still believes he can do it at the "Reggie Wayne" standard then by all means we want him back. The HOF will just have to wait it out longer.


                      • #26
                        Re: Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

                        I'll always have a special fondness for Reggie the person off the field. I apologize to those who have already heard this story a few times, but it's worth repeating for those who haven't.

                        Can't remember the exact year but took place during the usual summer Colts camp. Reggie was on a golf cart going down to the practice fields as one of the lady housekeeping staff waved as he was passing. She accidently tripped over a curb and actually broke her hip. Whoever was driving the cart made the call for an ambulance but Reggie stuck by her side until the ambulance arrived to pick her up. I was told by a staff member Reggie sent her flowers and a get well gift too while she was in the hospital. Now that's a guy with a good heart and the reason he is in the upper echelon of my favorite Colt players.
                        You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....


                        • #27
                          Re: Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

                          I'm thinking that we'll find a way to keep him. He already gave us a discount in 2012 (right?), so I doubt he'll play hardball this go around. He doesn't have too much leverage if he wants to retire as a Colt. It would be nice to see him finish his career healthy in a year. Not expecting much though of he does comeback. Pretty rare for any WR to produce at that age.


                          • #28
                            Re: Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

                            I'd love to see a Jerry Rice like resurrection for Wayne next year. I think Reggie has a very similar mental make-up to Rice and this quality alone gives him a very real chance go out and prove he is still a productive receiver. Just not sure if he has the physical ability to recover from injury that Rice had after his knee issues and with the follow-up injuries this year it is entirely possible the body just won't allow it. Wayne is the ultimate Colt and have always hoped that he could retire on his terms after contributing to another Super Bowl win.


                            • #29
                              Re: Reggie Wayne planning 2015 return if the Colts will have him.

                              88 to 87 to 13: The bridge that binds Colts receivers
                              Zak Keefer, 6:08 p.m. EST January 10, 2015
                              Work habits pass from Harrison to Wayne to Hilton

                              Colts at Broncos, 4:40 p.m. Sunday, CBS
                              It started with No. 88 and his gloveless practices and the daily toil that led him to 1,102 catches and 14,580 yards and 128 touchdowns. It started with Marvin Harrison and the way he went about his work. "Practice is where you earn your money," he would tell teammates. "The games? Those are for free."

                              Then came No. 87. "I'm going to make it my job to make sure teams can't double-cover you anymore," Reggie Wayne told Harrison his first day he walked into the Indianapolis Colts' locker room in 2001. Then came the questions. Routes. Coverages. Defensive tells. Wayne wanted the secrets. Harrison answered every last inquiry.

                              So 87 watched and listened and learned. And he worked just like 88 did. He never griped about playing in Harrison's shadow, he just showed up every day – it's been 14 years now – and scripted Hall of Fame credentials all his own. Together, 88 and 87 buried secondaries for nearly a decade.

                              Every Andrew Luck pass from Austin Collie to Zurlon Tipton

                              Back then, in the mid-2000s, when Harrison and Wayne were the NFL's premier pass-catching pair, T.Y. Hilton was a South Florida kid throwing to them in the video game Madden. Forget his hometown Dolphins; the Colts were Hilton's team. They had Harrison. They had Wayne. He'd create his own player, slap 'Hilton' on the back of the jersey and toss his imaginary self into the offense, right alongside the two legends.

                              Thus, in Hilton's customized video game world, Peyton Manning's options at receiver looked like this: Marvin Harrison to his right, Reggie Wayne to his left, T.Y. Hilton in the slot. The poor defenses that had to face that lineup.

                              "It was kind of like cheating," Hilton says now, smiling. "But I always pictured myself playing with those guys."

                              A half-dozen years later Hilton doesn't need to create a video-game version of himself, a receiver for the Colts with surreal speed and sturdy hands. He lives it. Through four career playoff games he's hauled in 496 yards – a fatter sum than every receiver in history not named Larry Fitzgerald. Postseason game No. 5 comes Sunday in Denver (4:40 p.m., CBS).

                              Surprised? You shouldn't be. Hilton's sterling start to his career comes in concert with that of his predecessors: Just as Wayne watched Harrison, Hilton watches Wayne. The routes. The coverages. The defensive tells. Hilton wants every secret. Wayne answers every inquiry. Sound familiar?

                              The standard set by Harrison and sustained by Wayne now falls to Hilton, the Colts' new Alpha Dog receiver. The trade secrets have been handed down. The torch has been passed, from 88 to 87 to 13. Now it's T.Y.'s time.

                              "There's a lot of places where you don't see that, and you don't get that," Colts coach Chuck Pagano said. "Guys aren't willing to spend the extra time with the young players."

                              Then again, most guys aren't Reggie Wayne.

                              On the second day and in the third round of the 2012 NFL draft, after 91 players and 12 wide receivers had already heard their names called, Eugene "T.Y." Hilton's phone buzzed. He had a home. He was headed to Indianapolis.

                              A few moments later, as he celebrated with family, another buzz. A call from the 305 area code. South Florida.

                              "Congratulations," Reggie Wayne told him. "I'm really happy for you. Now, let's get to work."

                              "Let's do it," came Hilton's response.

                              It was the first time they'd ever spoken.

                              The guy he'd played with in Madden was now a teammate. It didn't fully hit Hilton until the day he walked into his first receivers' meeting at the Colts facility. He saw Wayne. He froze. Wow. That's really Reggie Wayne, he told himself.

                              "He'd been in the league for so long, done so many things," Hilton said. "I just wanted to steal some knowledge from him and add it to my game."

                              “Congratulations. I'm really happy for you. Now, let's get to work.”

                              It was a torn quad that hampered Hilton at the scouting combine and contributed to his draft descent. Teams were scared of the Florida International product, and his 5-9, 178-pound frame didn't help. (Harrison, by contrast, was listed generously at 6-0 and 185 pounds.) So after arriving in Indianapolis, Hilton turned the knocks into fuel. He began his NFL career resolute to prove he was better than the 92nd pick, better than the 12 receivers selected ahead of him.

                              In Wayne, he met an aging veteran determined to show he still had it.

                              "My motto has always been, 'Outwork the guy in front of you,'" Hilton said. "Well, it's hard to do that when the guy in front of you is Reggie Wayne."

                              But Wayne saw it early, the way Harrison saw it all those years back. The new kid was willing to work. He could respect that.

                              And the questions? They were the same ones he asked as a rookie.

                              "That's how I was with Marv," Wayne said. "How could I run this particular route better? How could I read a defense better? T.Y. was never shy about asking questions. I like that. That's how you learn. At the end of the day, I just want my teammates to say that I've been a good teammate. Hopefully, I've been that to the younger guys."

                              Slowly, remnants of Harrison and Wayne trickled into Hilton's game-wrecking repertoire. Look closely and you'll see it on Sundays.

                              Watch 13 slide away from needless contact the way 87 would, the same way 88 would before him. Watch 13 torment a cornerback on the sideline – makes you think of 88 in his prime, doesn't it? Watch 13 streak across the middle and flash his hands at the last second – sudden as a snake's strike – and snag a first down amidst the teeth of the defense. 87 made a career on plays like that.

                              They grew close, the savvy old-timer and the precocious young star. They kept to their ritual after every big play – joining in the huddle for a fist-bump – whether it was Wayne or Hilton who'd made the catch. In Sunday's 26-10 wild card win over Cincinnati, Wayne hauled in a critical first down in the fourth quarter. Hilton was ecstatic.

                              "I threw the fist-bump out the door and tried to give him a high-five," he said.

                              Wayne didn't like it. Stick to the routine, young fella.

                              "He batted me across the helmet!" Hilton recalled, laughing.

                              Hilton is off to a historic pace. Through three seasons, he leads Harrison and Wayne in receptions (214 compared to Harrison's 196 and Wayne's 144) and yards (3,289 to Harrison's 2,478 and Wayne's 1,899). Harrison remains tops in touchdowns (21 to Hilton's 19 and Wayne's 11). Either way, it's good company to have. Harrison was named a Hall of Fame finalist Thursday night.

                              Hilton's proving he belongs in the conversation.

                              And he knows his good fortune. How many rookies walk into a meeting room with a veteran like Wayne – now with 212 games under his belt to go with six Pro Bowls and a world championship – willing to dish on his deep reservoir of receiving knowledge?

                              "That speaks to his character," Hilton said. "It doesn't matter what he does. He's always trying to help people out. If you have a question, ask him. He'll help you. For him to do that with me, it means a lot."

                              * * *

                              Whereas Wayne isn't afraid to vocalize his feelings and frustrations, Harrison spoke loudest with his silence. His business was football; he cared little for the distractions that came along with it. He never went out of his way to help Wayne, or any receiver for that matter. But if Wayne asked, he answered.

                              The greatest lessons he passed on came in his practice habits. He left his gloves on the sideline to toughen up his hands for Sundays. He sprinted to the end zone after every single catch. He never took a day off.

                              "I remember how fast he was, that he had awesome hands, those wild catches he used to make," Hilton said. "But the biggest thing about Marvin Harrison was his heart. He played with so much heart."

                              That heart left indelible mark on a wide-eyed rookie out of the University of Miami. It helped shape the arc of Wayne's career.

                              A decade and a half later, Wayne is the league's oldest receiver. His leadership style strays from Harrison's head-down, mouth-shut mantra; if he sees a problem, his teammates hear about it. Wayne called a players-only meeting late in the season to ensure the Colts refocus before their playoff push.

                              There are the little things, too.

                              "I remember one night at training camp, Reggie speaking up in front of the whole team," said Colts backup quarterback Matt Hasselbeck, before diving into his best Wayne impersonation. "'Guys, make sure you clean up after yourself in the lunch room. It's not the janitor's job to clean up your plate!'"

                              The bond between Wayne and Hilton continues to blossom. They sit next to each other in film sessions and on flights. They fist-bump after every big play. They shoot hoops together in the offseason.

                              After Sunday's win over Cincinnati, Hilton showed his respect this way: By sporting a gray T-shirt with Wayne in his blue 87 uniform across the chest.

                              "Best T-shirt in the world," Wayne called it.

                              As for his pupil, he's carving out his own legacy. Only two of the first 13 receivers drafted in 2012 have earned a Pro Bowl nod. Hilton is one of them.

                              Yet the bar for the position in Indianapolis remains impossibly high. He can thank 88 and 87 for that. Hilton topped 1,000 receiving yards for the second straight season this year; Harrison and Wayne achieved that feat eight times each. Harrison sits third in NFL history in receptions, Wayne seventh. Harrison's seventh all-time in yards, Wayne eighth.

                              Hilton has a ways to go.

                              And he may soon go it alone. When Wayne packs his car after the season and heads south to Miami, he'll contemplate whether to retire or return for a 15th season. Hilton expects his phone to buzz again.

                              "He already knows he's got to talk to me about it before he makes a decision," Hilton said.

                              He knows one more thing: If Wayne does call it a career, Hilton is ready for what comes next.

                              "I guess I'll just have to pay it forward like he did."
                              Last edited by Bball; 01-11-2015, 12:36 AM.
                              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.


                              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                              -John Wooden