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Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

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In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

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Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

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  • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

    Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
    True, and Dirk obviously shredded them in the post too.
    And Tyson Chandler dominated the paint defensively, so size does matter. Hibbert just laid down like a wuss this past series.
    Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

    Comment


    • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

      Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
      True, and Dirk obviously shredded them in the post too.
      Exactly. Dirk's scoring was huge for the Mavs because the Heat couldn't put LeBron on him and stop him like they can do to Derrick Rose, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant and our own Paul George. Dirk is simply too big for him. Same goes for Duncan.

      Not that the Spurs needed Duncan to dominate like Dirk did. The Spurs were on another level as a whole this season and that's why they won. Kawhi, Duncan, Parker, Manu, Green, Diaw and even Splitter and Patty Mills helped immensely. Every single one of them played a big role for the Spurs.

      Full disclosure: I have yet to watch a full game of this year's NBA Finals. Everything I can say about it I have gathered it from watching Coach Nick's videos, some highlight videos and reading through some message boards. I have too afraid that I was going to jinx the Spurs in order to watch the games as they were happening

      So, I'm obviously admitting that my knowledge of this year's Spurs-Heat series is inferior to everyone else who actually watched the games. I'll watch the Finals during the summer and form my complete opinion then
      Originally posted by IrishPacer
      Empty vessels make the most noise.

      Comment


      • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

        Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
        It's both ball movement and size. Tim Duncan averaged 15.4 PPG, 10 RPG and 2 APG and he was a big reason why San Antonio won so easily.
        I see we agree I'm something.

        How's that Copeland signing (or should I say sighting) and how's it look on our cap now.
        Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

        Comment


        • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

          Originally posted by Pacer Fan View Post
          I see we agree I'm something.

          How's that Copeland signing (or should I say sighting) and how's it look on our cap now.
          Copeland performed when he played but he never got the chance to play a lot, imo. We'll see if he stays or if he goes in the summer. It depends on Lance's extension.

          Personally, I hold the belief that Copeland can help a team if its coach decides to use him.
          Originally posted by IrishPacer
          Empty vessels make the most noise.

          Comment


          • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

            Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
            Copeland performed when he played but he never got the chance to play a lot, imo. We'll see if he stays or if he goes in the summer. It depends on Lance's extension.

            Personally, I hold the belief that Copeland can help a team if its coach decides to use him.
            I believe that Copeland got his shots at playing and if he was worthy of sticking with him, then Frank would have done just that. He didn't get minutes for a reason and now he is costing us a heck of a lot of salary. Heck, he couldn't even outplay Scola for his minutes. I believe Pacers paid 1.5 mil per year to much for Copeland just like they did with Hill. Pacers could use that 4.5 mil this summer.
            Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

            Comment


            • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

              Originally posted by Pacer Fan View Post
              I believe that Copeland got his shots at playing and if he was worthy of sticking with him, then Frank would have done just that. He didn't get minutes for a reason and now he is costing us a heck of a lot of salary. Heck, he couldn't even outplay Scola for his minutes. I believe Pacers paid 1.5 mil per year to much for Copeland just like they did with Hill. Pacers could use that 4.5 mil this summer.
              I'll respectfully disagree. I don't believe that Copeland got any shot at playing. He was used very sparsely.
              Originally posted by IrishPacer
              Empty vessels make the most noise.

              Comment


              • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

                Originally posted by Pacer Fan View Post
                I believe that Copeland got his shots at playing and if he was worthy of sticking with him, then Frank would have done just that. He didn't get minutes for a reason and now he is costing us a heck of a lot of salary. Heck, he couldn't even outplay Scola for his minutes. I believe Pacers paid 1.5 mil per year to much for Copeland just like they did with Hill. Pacers could use that 4.5 mil this summer.

                Copeland never once got a chance to actually work himself into a consistent rhythm. I thought he looked decent when he got minutes, but it's tough for a guy to sit on the bench for a while and then come in and immediately do big things after sitting cold on the bench for so long. Copeland played decent enough in his limited chances that he should have received more of an opportunity to play. We should have used Cope more to cut down on West's minutes, especially during the slump when we were losing games left and right anyway.

                Comment


                • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

                  Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                  Copeland never once got a chance to actually work himself into a consistent rhythm. I thought he looked decent when he got minutes, but it's tough for a guy to sit on the bench for a while and then come in and immediately do big things after sitting cold on the bench for so long. Copeland played decent enough in his limited chances that he should have received more of an opportunity to play. We should have used Cope more to cut down on West's minutes, especially during the slump when we were losing games left and right anyway.
                  never? Hmm, guess he sat on the pine all season including practice. No, wait some of you should be coach instead of Frank cause youll see all even when youll ain't even there.

                  Copeland has one thing, a long range jump shot and that's it. He's clumsy, 2 left feet, can't post, can't pnr, sets lousy picks, can't pass and a absolute sieve on defense. That's what I did see throughout the season. Heck he was so bad in acouple games I seriously felt bad for the guy trying to do to much, but accomplishing nothing.
                  Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

                  Comment


                  • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

                    Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                    I'll respectfully disagree. I don't believe that Copeland got any shot at playing. He was used very sparsely.
                    How do you know are you at practice? There is more than one way to earn playing time.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

                      Originally posted by d_c View Post
                      Pacers would've had to go small, and conventional wisdom to beating Miami was to go big and pound it inside. But turns out the key isn't size inside....... its ball movement and shooting. Its passing it around and tiring the Heat out, as the Mavs and Spurs showed
                      I think the key is to be really really good. I'm not trying to be sarcastic I am serious. Pacers were clearly not good enough, no matter what style they played. The Spurs were clearly much better no matter what style they played. Of course one reason why the Spurs were so good is because of their style - they way they passed the ball and only cared about winning.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

                        Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                        Copeland performed when he played but he never got the chance to play a lot, imo. We'll see if he stays or if he goes in the summer. It depends on Lance's extension.

                        Personally, I hold the belief that Copeland can help a team if its coach decides to use him.

                        Coaches use players they trust, coaches use players they believe will help them win. Obviously Frank didn't trust Cope and didn't believe he could help the team win as miuch as the players who did get regular minutes. I realize what I am posting here is obvious. But I read post after post about how Copeland can help us if only the **** coach would play him. You know about any player can help a team if they get playing time - that has been proven again and again. They are all NBA players for a reason they all have skills.

                        So I don't think suggesting that so and so can help a team if he gets playing time is saying anything really.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

                          Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                          Coaches use players they trust, coaches use players they believe will help them win. Obviously Frank didn't trust Cope and didn't believe he could help the team win as miuch as the players who did get regular minutes. I realize what I am posting here is obvious. But I read post after post about how Copeland can help us if only the **** coach would play him. You know about any player can help a team if they get playing time - that has been proven again and again. They are all NBA players for a reason they all have skills.

                          So I don't think suggesting that so and so can help a team if he gets playing time is saying anything really.

                          It's just hard to give Vogel the benefit of the doubt on anything bench related after seeing the downright poor bench results over the last two seasons with talented players who have succeeded elsewhere. He has been a good coach here and I think that he deserved to comeback next year. His system has worked very well for the starting unit. That being said, the guy isn't Red Auerbach yet and he has his flaws. He clearly hasn't shown that he can adapt to the talents of his bench players. At this point, there are way too many guys who have came here and sucked.

                          Vogel played Plumle, our first round draft pick, 55 total minutes in 2012-13 on a team that desperately needed bench help. Then Plumlee goes on to have a damn good season in Phoenix after we trade him. Obviously Vogel didn't think that Copeland could have helped, but that doesn't mean he is right. Regardless, I don't think that anyone was ever saying that Copeland would come in and save the team during the slump. But with Scola slumping and West being worked hard all year, we should have given him some minutes.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

                            Plumlee wouldn't have fixed the bench issues. He's a better hand version of Ian.

                            Let's really go over this list of bench players that left and suddenly got good.

                            DJ? He busted in Toronto, getting CUT, before going to a desperate Bulls that allowed him to do anything he wanted offensively.
                            Tyler?
                            Sam Young?
                            Pendergraph?
                            Ben Hans?
                            OJ?

                            So really the only example of a bench player leaving and turning heads is Green. DJ, eh..... I think it's pretty apparent that he needs a certain situation to have an impact and that's more on him. DJ had all the chances in the world to do something in Indy, and just couldn't get it done. It's nothing like Copeland.

                            I think this whole "bench players leave and suddenly get good" argument has become more of projection than what actually happened. And I think it's perfectly valid to argue Green found the perfect role for him, and wouldn't do that many other places.
                            Last edited by Since86; 06-19-2014, 09:46 AM.
                            Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

                              Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                              Plumlee wouldn't have fixed the bench issues. He's a better hand version of Ian.

                              Let's really go over this list of bench players that left and suddenly got good.

                              DJ? He busted in Toronto, getting CUT, before going to a desperate Bulls that allowed him to do anything he wanted offensively.
                              Tyler?
                              Sam Young?
                              Pendergraph?
                              Ben Hans?
                              OJ?

                              So really the only example of a bench player leaving and turning heads is Green. DJ, eh..... I think it's pretty apparent that he needs a certain situation to have an impact and that's more on him. DJ had all the chances in the world to do something in Indy, and just couldn't get it done. It's nothing like Copeland.

                              I think this whole "bench players leave and suddenly get good" argument has become more of projection than what actually happened. And I think it's perfectly valid to argue Green found the perfect role for him, and wouldn't do that many other places.
                              Hey, Pendy-Ayres got a ring, alright, so he must have gotten better since he left. So take him off your list too. Right meow.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

                                Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                                Plumlee wouldn't have fixed the bench issues. He's a better hand version of Ian.

                                Let's really go over this list of bench players that left and suddenly got good.

                                DJ? He busted in Toronto, getting CUT, before going to a desperate Bulls that allowed him to do anything he wanted offensively.
                                Tyler?
                                Sam Young?
                                Pendergraph?
                                Ben Hans?
                                OJ?

                                So really the only example of a bench player leaving and turning heads is Green. DJ, eh..... I think it's pretty apparent that he needs a certain situation to have an impact and that's more on him. DJ had all the chances in the world to do something in Indy, and just couldn't get it done. It's nothing like Copeland.

                                I think this whole "bench players leave and suddenly get good" argument has become more of projection than what actually happened.
                                Plumlee - not saying that he would have "fixed" anything. But when you give your first round draft pick a mere 55 minutes of playing time in his rookie season and then he goes on in year two to have a damn good season with another team........well maybe in hindsight you should have played the guy a couple more minutes.

                                Turner - 17 PPG player in Philly, gets traded here and is getting DNP'd by the end of the playoffs. Yeah I know that he wasn't a good defender and made some dumb decisions, but I still have a hard time believing that he would have been so useless on all of the other playoff teams. It has to be unprecedented for a guy to put up 17 PPG for a team, get traded, and then collect DNP's by the end of the playoffs on his new team. Put him on the Spurs or even a team like the Mavs and I bet they figure out how to use him. I'll be interested to see what happens to him next season. If he goes to a good team, then I fully expect him to produce.

                                Scola - he definitely aged here, but he still basically became a one dimensional jump shooter here. We didn't post him up near enough times until the Miami series when he looked very good doing it.

                                Green - sucks here, is a stud in Phoenix.

                                Augustin busted in a mere 10 games in Toronto before getting cut to facilitate the Rudy Gay trade. Hardly a large sample size. In his full seasons with teams, he was generally pretty good in Charlotte, was of course good with the Bulls, yet of course sucked as a Pacer. I'm going to put far more weight of several Charlotte seasons and 61 games in Chicago than I am 10 games in Toronto.

                                Copeland - decent player on a 54 win Knick team last year, yet never gets a chance to consistently get a groove here on the court even though shooting was one thing this team really needed.

                                That's six players who either had some of the worst seasons of their careers here, or who barely got a chance to touch the court. Tyler definitely played better here than in Toronto, and CJ Watson was one of the better point guards in the league this season. Nevertheless, I see far more examples of bad bench production than I do success stories. Collectively, there just seems to be a pattern of bench talent not being able to produce here, particularly on the offensive end of the court. Don't care about OJ, Ben Hansbrough, or Pendergraph since those guys are bottom feeder players wherever they play.

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