West calls out Vogel?

[Dr. Hibbert]

Wow. He's right, too, in my opinion.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s1ip6s

This quote from David West in the @MikeWellsNFL I just RT piece is stunning: "We have to be able to make better adjustments," West said. "We just didn't respond. I have no explanation on why we gave up 40-something [points] in the second quarter. "Coach [Frank Vogel] throws [the starters] back out there and says, 'Get us out of the hole.' Just tough, particularly when a team is rolling, feeling good. We're in an uphill battle the whole game."

[Pacergeek]

Re: West calls out Vogel?

It did kill our momentum when the second unit started out cold in the second quarter. Scola and Turner have been pretty much useless this series, and Frank puts them both in together in the most important game of the season. Scola and Turner have not played well enough to deserve minutes this series. Shorten the rotation. Only guy of the bench that has been good is CJ

[Unclebuck]

Re: West calls out Vogel?

OK, but I would hardly call that West calling out Vogel.

[Dr. Hibbert]

Re: West calls out Vogel?

OK, but I would hardly call that West calling out Vogel.

Disagree. I think the "adjustments" part is a shot at Vogel. Vogel doesn't adjust, and then throws the starters out there telling them to clean it all up (which is bad strategy in and of itself anyway).

[Rogco]

Re: West calls out Vogel?

It did kill our momentum when the second unit started out cold in the second quarter. Scola and Turner have been pretty much useless this series, and Frank puts them both in together in the most important game of the season. Scola and Turner have not played well enough to deserve minutes this series. Shorten the rotation. Only guy of the bench that has been good is CJ

The problem is the list of people who haven't played well enough to deserve minutes now includes:
1.) Hibbert
2.) Hill
3.) West
4.) Turner
5.) Scola

Really only Lance and PG who play any real minutes have played well enough to deserve them (maybe Ian)?

[Unclebuck]

Re: West calls out Vogel?

Disagree. I think the "adjustments" part is a shot at Vogel. Vogel doesn't adjust, and then throws the starters out there telling them to clean it all up (which is bad strategy in and of itself anyway).

So what was he supposed to tell the starters?

[timid]

Re: West calls out Vogel?

So what was he supposed to tell the starters?

Maybe tell them a different way to approach the Hawks offense instead of just doing the same things over and over? Tell them to switch the pick and rolls from the outset?

[Dr. Hibbert]

Re: West calls out Vogel?

So what was he supposed to tell the starters?

It's not what he said. It's that he thinks this is a viable strategy, and this isn't the first time.

Vogel, essentially:

1. Make no adjustments, because "they should adapt to you".

2. Experience same problems as you always have, go tell starters they have to fix everything now.

[Ragnar]

Re: West calls out Vogel?

What he was supposed to do was play CJ Watson and Cope like he eventually did, it was just too late.

[Unclebuck]

Re: West calls out Vogel?

Maybe tell them a different way to approach the Hawks offense instead of just doing the same things over and over? Tell them to switch the pick and rolls from the outset?

He did, they started switching everything. They have been defending the pick and rolls pretty well up until Scott went off. so I don't think switching from the outset was warranted

[Grimp]

Re: West calls out Vogel?

What he was supposed to do was play CJ Watson and Cope like he eventually did, it was just too late.

And that's why Vogel will be fired when this is all said and done.

[Major Cold]

Re: West calls out Vogel?

He did, they started switching everything

But he went to switching with the wrong personnel. Complete adjustments means changing facets that can make those adjustments successful.

He is getting out coached. The players are getting out played.

[Cubs231721]

Re: West calls out Vogel?

Paul George had a somewhat similar quote in the postgame recap where it was a little unclear if he was talking about the players adjusting or the coaches:

"It was frustrating because we didn't make a change," George said of the Pacers' defense. "We let them run the same action, the same shot. We didn't do nothing. So that was frustrating."

[Dr. Hibbert]

Re: West calls out Vogel?

He is getting out coached. The players are getting out played.

Not to ignore how important the players getting outplayed is, but the extent to which Vogel is getting outcoached by Budenholzer is mindblowing. At least to me. Bird, Pritchard has to be seeing that too, right?

[Ace E.Anderson]

Re: West calls out Vogel?

The problem is the list of people who haven't played well enough to deserve minutes now includes:
1.) Hibbert
2.) Hill
3.) West
4.) Turner
5.) Scola

Really only Lance and PG who play any real minutes have played well enough to deserve them (maybe Ian)?

Hill has played well the last two games, and 2 of the last 3?