West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

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  • Unclebuck
    Administrator
    • Jan 2004
    • 36200

    West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

    I agree with george Hill, the swoon started about two weeks before the allstar game. Loss at Orlando after having a big 3rd quarter lead and home to the Mavs were early signs of trouble

    http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/04/01/first-spiraling-now-splintering-indiana-loses-grasp-of-its-no-1-goal/


    First spiraling, now splintering, Indiana loses grasp of its No. 1 goal

    INDIANAPOLIS – Be careful what you wish for. Someone might snatch it away. That’s not quite how the saying goes, but it’s the queasy version that applies now to the Indiana Pacers.

    All season long, from back in training camp through the many trips and back-to-backs, despite the physical dings and emotional drain of trying to go wire-to-wire, the Pacers had staked out the No. 1 playoff berth in the Eastern Conference as their goal within a goal. They get that, and any Game 7 against their rivals from Miami would be played in Indiana.

    It was a marvelous carrot for an 82-game schedule that wields some serious sticks. A rabbit to chase and, once claimed, to flex. A fix for what slipped away last year, when the Pacers did so many things right in Game 6 against the Heat, only to step on that plane to South Florida for one more.

    And then, on the final night of the season’s fifth month, it was gone. With the thud of Indiana’s 103-77 embarrassment against the San Antonio Spurs Monday night at Bankers Life Fieldhouse, combined with Miami’s home victory over Toronto, the top of the East looks like this:

    1. Miami, 51-22, .699
    2. Indiana, 52-23, .693

    The Pacers just hit the snooze button on their own nightmare.

    “Good for them. We don’t deserve it,” center Roy Hibbert said in a home dressing room that was more demoralized than angry. “We’ll see, in the playoffs. But we’ve got to figure things out. Miami is a good team. They’ve had a couple hiccups themselves. But we don’t deserve that No. 1 seed.”

    Indiana forward David West, who hinted at a variety of basketball and chemistry issues ailing his team now, said: “We’ve got to concede that we haven’t played basketball well enough to deserve the top spot. That’s pretty much it. We haven’t played well enough. We haven’t been a good-looking basketball team for quite some time now. That’s on the guys in this locker room.”

    It was only their third loss at home since Feb. 1 and their fifth at the Fieldhouse this season (33-5) but it was the worst one by far. Giving up 107 points? Very unPacers-like, with the Spurs free to score 42 in the paint and hit 8-for-17 3-pointers. Scoring a mere 77? All too Pacers-like. This was the fifth time in six games they failed to crack 80. The last team to do that, as noted by the Elias Sports Bureau, was the 2011-12 Charlotte Bobcats, who went 7-59 (.106) in that post-lockout season to set an NBA record for lowest winning percentage.

    Not “a good-looking basketball team?” West was given another crack at his description of the Pacers at the moment. “We’re probably the most downtrodden, 50-plus win team in the history of the game,” he said. “We watch film from a few months ago, we don’t even recognize ourselves.”

    Said Hibbert: “We should all go to group therapy. … We’ve been spiraling. Now we’re splintering a little bit.”

    Pegging the start of swoon seems easier than explaining or solving it. Point guard George Hill claimed the mojo dipped about two weeks before All-Star weekend. Indiana won a few close ones, then dropped two of three right before the break; it is 12-11 since then. Hill had a heated timeout exchange with backcourt mate Lance Stephenson in the second half Monday, but chalked it up to “wanting to win.” Stephenson likened it to “brothers” squabbling but still being family.

    Maybe.

    But West sure seemed to be catching himself, declining to address the stress this stretch has put on what had been been Indiana’s strength, its bonds and chemistry at least in the good times.

    There’s things I’m not going to speak on, but we’ve just got to figure it out,” the veteran forward said. “We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room, before we can even consider talking about winning and getting back the trust.

    “As a group, we didn’t have the energy or the mindset to compete with that team tonight.”

    Sure, that was part of Monday’s mess. When your offense is as sick as Indiana’s, facing the Spurs goes against every possible doctor’s order, especially if he’s named Erving or Rivers. San Antonio has won 18 in a row with its meticulous offensive execution and stifling work at the other end. The Spurs held their hosts to a season-low 26 field goals and zero fast-break points. They got 17 points off 12 Pacer turnovers just in the second half. Kawhi Leonard was so up in Paul George’s business all night, George would have had more elbow room flying middle seat, coach.

    “We’re not playing the game the right way right now,” George said after scoring 16 points on 5-for-13 shooting and, later, citing a severe lack of screen-setting. “We’re not playing for one another. It’s tough to score on any team in this league when you’re trying to do it against the whole team.

    “San Antonio is the perfect example. It’s hard to guard them because they move the ball, they share the ball. And it’s regardless of who’s shooting. They want the best shot on offense. That’s the problem we’re having right now.”

    Keep in mind, Indiana just flopped over the weekend in games at Washington and Cleveland (minus Kyrie Irving), so no pedigree is required nowadays to pester the Pacers. Still, things went so badly Monday that criticisms and accusations that had lift before the game were dive-bombing and barrel-rolling by night’s end. Such as:
    • A couple of the Indiana players need to toughen up, with Hibbert and George hinted at as the likeliest culprits.
    • One or two of them want too much to be “the man,” without regard for the game’s actual outcome. George was fingered in our man David Aldridge‘s Morning Tip chat with Hibbert this week and Stephenson surely has tendencies to dominate the ball. The team’s high number of contested shots suggests that someone or somebodies occasionally force things, considering how many capable scores Indiana actually has.
    • They got too satisfied by their blistering start and haven’t had anyone, including coach Frank Vogel, hammering on them enough to keep them humble and hungry.


    Well, guess what: Spurs coach Gregg Popovich, while minding his own business, spanked the Pacers a little by extension, simply by talking about his team’s historic disregard for the No. 1 seed. What has loomed so large for Indiana all year – and now is like a psychological sword hanging over their heads – didn’t matter one bit through 17 consecutive playoff appearances, five Finals trips and four NBA championships in the Duncan/Popovich era.

    “Never,” Popovich said Monday evening. “This will sound really strange to you, but we’ve never had any numerical or positioning goals – ever. Not one time. We’ve never talked about it the entire time I’ve been here.

    “The only thing we do is talk about trying to be the best team we can be come playoff time. That’s what we harp on, period. We don’t talk about anything else.”

    Then there are the Pacers, who gave Miami – mildly disinterested as the two-time defending champions navigated through the regular season – something they could steal away, turning the screws some on these wannabes.

    “It puts us in reality now,” said George. “We’re really missing out on an opportunity right now.”

    So what’s the first step for the Pacers now to begin digging out, with seven games that include Miami, Oklahoma City and a trip to Toronto?

    “If we knew that, I think we’d be a lot better than we are right now,” George said, appreciating the conundrum. “I think that’s the first step – identifying it.”

    As George spoke a couple of times with reporters – with a long, solitary bowed-head-in-hands moment in between – a self-help book rested against the wall of the open stall next to his. You Can Make It Happen – A Nine-Step Plan. The author in pensive pose on the cover: Steadman Graham.

    It looked uncracked, which might not be a bad thing. What ails the Pacers might be better addressed on his gal pal’s couch, if only it still were in business. Or on Dr. Phil’s.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 04-01-2014, 08:30 AM.
  • joew8302
    Member
    • Jul 2008
    • 9561

    #2
    Re: Some new information in this article. Maybe

    Yeah. the locker room isn't cohesive and the guys really don't like each other. They can sugarcoat it to the media all they want, but their disdain for each other is obvious watching them play.

    Comment

    • Dr. Hibbert
      Member
      • Jan 2009
      • 5074

      #3
      Re: West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

      You're professionals. Some of you are on max contracts. Most of you are making millions of dollars.

      Act. Like. Professionals. I'm struggling to think of anything so bad as to justify the current state of things.

      Comment

      • Kstat
        Rebound King
        • Jan 2004
        • 34208

        #4
        Re: West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

        This isn't the eastern conference all-star team. Hibbert and George are the all-stars making the obscene 8-figure max salaries. This is their team, not Vogel's. If there is a chemistry problem in the locker room, it's on their watch.

        While David West is the respected veteran, he's not the star of the team, nor the highest paid member. He's not there to straighten everyone out and if he has to keep making statements for the team it makes Hibbert and George look weak.

        Stop talking about the problem and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. ****....
        Last edited by Kstat; 04-01-2014, 08:30 AM.

        It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

        Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
        Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
        NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

        Comment

        • Sollozzo
          Member
          • Jan 2004
          • 27458

          #5
          Re: West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

          This is just surreal. I remember early in the season when all of the media people who cover the team constantly talked about how they had never been around a locker room so close. Clearly something happened. This team used to be the epitome of selfless team basketball. They were so likable. Now it's hard to find anything remotely likable about them. Sad.

          Comment

          • Speed
            Member
            • Jan 2006
            • 9266

            #6
            Re: West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

            I remember that moment with GHill and Lance very clearly. It extended for awhile I felt like, but thought maybe I was imagining it. I've always kinda felt they never completely got okay from that, but again when you start to look for something, you might see stuff that isn't there. In games after that I felt like they'd freeze Lance out at times. Last night GHill was trying to say thanks for a nice pass from Lance when they were headed and on the bench, it seemed like Lance semi ignored him. Again could be my imagination, but its been in the back of my head since that reference they have in the article.

            Comment

            • Coopdog23
              THE WITCH IS DEAD!!!
              • May 2010
              • 3473

              #7
              Re: West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

              We can get some wins here before we get Miami again. It's not over yet.
              Smothered Chicken!

              Comment

              • Unclebuck
                Administrator
                • Jan 2004
                • 36200

                #8
                Re: West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

                Honest question:

                did the losing cause the chemistry problems.

                Or

                did the chemistry problems cause the losing.

                Which came first. Sounds to me from what West and George Hill said (and those two players are the two I listen to the most) that the chemistry changed and the losing followed. That isn't always the case. But then what West said they need to change the chemistry in order to start winning again.

                How do you change the chemistry. Trade players, fire current coach and hire a different coach.

                Can chemistry ever change by the players for lack of a better phrase - "working it out". I suppose that is possible, but it is extremely rare. In fact I don't think I've ever seen it. Seems like the team is changed in order to change the chemistry

                Comment

                • Sollozzo
                  Member
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 27458

                  #9
                  Re: West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

                  Originally posted by Coopdog23
                  We can get some wins here before we get Miami again. It's not over yet.
                  The Heat smell blood in the water and have a pretty easy schedule from here on out. I wouldn't be surprised if they won out. It's sad, because I really do think that the Heat were at a point where they accepted that they weren't going to be the Number 1 seed. They played extremely sloppy down the stretch and seemed more concerned about just getting everyone healthy. But now that the Pacers have shown such tremendous weakness by blowing their lead, the Heat will certainly take full advantage of the opportunity.

                  Comment

                  • Kstat
                    Rebound King
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 34208

                    #10
                    Re: West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

                    Originally posted by Sollozzo
                    The Heat smell blood in the water and have a pretty easy schedule from here on out. I wouldn't be surprised if they won out. It's sad, because I really do think that the Heat were at a point where they accepted that they weren't going to be the Number 1 seed. They played extremely sloppy down the stretch and seemed more concerned about just getting everyone healthy. But now that the Pacers have shown such tremendous weakness by blowing their lead, the Heat will certainly take full advantage of the opportunity.
                    The Pacers still take the #1 seed if they win out.

                    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                    Comment

                    • imawhat
                      Bring Back David West
                      • Aug 2006
                      • 10781

                      #11
                      Re: West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

                      Hey, I remember Dwyane Wade having to be restrained from Spoelstra and then LeBron having a little shoving match with Chalmers, and then they won the title a few games later.

                      Comment

                      • Heisenberg
                        u bum
                        • Jun 2010
                        • 25190

                        #12
                        Re: West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

                        Such as "me quit bricking bunnies like I'm a 7th grade girl."

                        Our "leaders" are ****** basketball players, that's the problem. You can't lead when you suck. And when you suck and young bucks try to take the mantle you get pissed off and pout because you know your word is meaningless since you suck.

                        Comment

                        • D-BONE
                          Peace Dog
                          • Feb 2006
                          • 15653

                          #13
                          Re: West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

                          Originally posted by Heisenberg
                          Such as "me quit bricking bunnies like I'm a 7th grade girl."

                          Our "leaders" are ****** basketball players, that's the problem. You can't lead when you suck. And when you suck and young bucks try to take the mantle you get pissed off and pout because you know your word is meaningless since you suck.
                          Iposted something similar last night. Is Hibbert and/or others having trouble being eclipsed by Lance's development on offensive end?

                          also think Franks offensive scheme is to simplistic, ISO heavy and he's obviously not been able to manage team dynamics when we started hitting bumps in road.
                          I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                          -Emiliano Zapata

                          Comment

                          • Unclebuck
                            Administrator
                            • Jan 2004
                            • 36200

                            #14
                            Re: West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

                            Originally posted by imawhat
                            Hey, I remember Dwyane Wade having to be restrained from Spoelstra and then LeBron having a little shoving match with Chalmers, and then they won the title a few games later.
                            True. But the heat have Lebron who can just dominant an entire game like he did against the Pacers in games 4, 5 and 6 of that series and Wade also started playing really well. Pacers need at least all 5 starters playing extremely well at the same time. Heat can have 3 starters playing not so good and still win, Pacers cannot do that at all.

                            Comment

                            • Unclebuck
                              Administrator
                              • Jan 2004
                              • 36200

                              #15
                              Re: West: We’ve got to change some things internally, inside the locker room

                              Originally posted by D-BONE
                              also think Franks offensive scheme is to simplistic, ISO heavy and he's obviously not been able to manage team dynamics when we started hitting bumps in road.
                              I feel like I always say this. Perhaps we have a different definition of what an isolation is. But I don't think our offense is Iso heavy at all. Except for end of quarters we run very little iso at least the way I define iso.

                              Having said that after we try to run our non-iso play, often times it turns into an iso play because our plays break down But that is diffetrent from a designed iso

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