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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

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  • Bball
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    This talk of cultural connections to the city have me thinking about something else... I assume the city's comprehensive plan has an extensive section on the importance of sports to the city for identity, pride, investment, etc....

    Since we know back in the day it was decided sports would play a pivotal role in the city's future I cannot imagine that wasn't written into the comprehensive plan. Which is then supposed to guide officials in their handling of future endeavors.

    IOW... If sports is to be a priority, then sports will be a priority....

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueNGold
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    Originally posted by daschysta View Post
    Things of cultural value, or affect the perception, prestige and status of the City don't need to be callously dollared and cented. Not everything exists to make a profit. The golf club analogy makes no sense. It is a club because it is exclusive, it isn't open to the public, thus you or I wouldn't necessarily be able to accrue the benefits of it, even if we wished to, thus the government has no incentive to invest in it. Also the gold club has no association with the city, and doesn't represent it in the way that the Pacers explicitly do. Letting a team go on those grounds would do nothing but diminish the city, there is another layer of value in sports teams beyond just economic considerations. This would be an awful place if the government only invested in things that made a profit for them.
    You are making some very big assumptions. Many people don't place any value (cultural or otherwise) at all on whether an NBA franchise exists in Indiana. It's not meaningful or of any value at all to them. Many people specifically don't like the NBA because, rightly or wrongly, they consider them overpaid prima donnas playing a child's game. I don't agree with that, but that view is still quite common. As a result, you are attributing things to people who might actually consider it a negative to have an NBA franchise and certainly don't consider it status they find valuable. This sentiment is not that rare and they shouldn't have to fork out their hard earned money so other people can enjoy their hobbies.

    Edit: Part of what I am saying is that a huge number of people don't consider the Pacers to be "their team". It's a private company. There is no relationship at all with Indiana citizens or tax payers...other than what the private company can negotiate with the city. FWIW, I can understand some contribution to the arts, but that's only because it doesn't generate anything close to the same amount of revenue. I don't see many at the Caberet signing 15M/yr contracts...
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 07-17-2012, 07:48 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • TinManJoshua
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    Originally posted by hoosierguy View Post
    So what city fits this criteria? Kansas City? Omaha (yeah right)? Any others?
    Columbus.

    Leave a comment:


  • daschysta
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    Things of cultural value, or affect the perception, prestige and status of the City don't need to be callously dollared and cented. Not everything exists to make a profit. The golf club analogy makes no sense. It is a club because it is exclusive, it isn't open to the public, thus you or I wouldn't necessarily be able to accrue the benefits of it, even if we wished to, thus the government has no incentive to invest in it. Also the gold club has no association with the city, and doesn't represent it in the way that the Pacers explicitly do. Letting a team go on those grounds would do nothing but diminish the city, there is another layer of value in sports teams beyond just economic considerations. This would be an awful place if the government only invested in things that made a profit for them.
    Last edited by daschysta; 07-17-2012, 06:56 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueNGold
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    Originally posted by hoosierguy View Post
    Until every other city gets out of the same business then Indy absolutely cannot- they put themselves at a major disadvantage otherwise.
    It all comes down to whether it's a good financial investment for the city to make.

    I don't think any part of that value has anything to do with the fans. Sure, it would hurt people here to see the Pacers leave, but many central Indiana citizens don't care at all and don't want their tax dollars being used to ensure the Pacers stay here. It would be like you and I paying for their golf club membership, simply because it's something they personally enjoy. This should all come down to whether an independent accounting shows that it's a net positive for Indy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sandman21
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    Plus isn't there a ridiculous amount of money the Pacers would have to pay to get out of their lease anyway?

    Leave a comment:


  • hoosierguy
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    Originally posted by daschysta View Post
    I'd guess Seattle, maybe Louisville, but the Pacers aren't going anywhere, this should go more smoothly than last time, given team performance and the new CBA lessening, even if slightly the burden placed on smaller market teams financially.
    Seattle doesn't have a stadium yet. Louisville is an even smaller market and U of L controls the YUM Center- no way a pro team defers to another tenant regarding use of the venue. Bankers Life is one of the best arenas in the country. Unless Louisville offers an insane subsidy (which won't happen) they aren't even on the radar as far as relocation is concerned.

    Leave a comment:


  • hoosierguy
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
    I think the government needs to get out of the business of supporting sports franchises...or at least treat them like other businesses. Tax breaks if they hire or based on how much revenue they bring into the city. There are many businesses here in central Indiana that could make the same argument for government funding...
    Until every other city gets out of the same business then Indy absolutely cannot- they put themselves at a major disadvantage otherwise.

    Leave a comment:


  • BillS
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
    I think the government needs to get out of the business of supporting sports franchises...or at least treat them like other businesses. Tax breaks if they hire or based on how much revenue they bring into the city. There are many businesses here in central Indiana that could make the same argument for government funding...
    If they are going to do so, they need to do it for BOTH the Pacers AND the Colts, that's all I would ask.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueNGold
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    I think the government needs to get out of the business of supporting sports franchises...or at least treat them like other businesses. Tax breaks if they hire or based on how much revenue they bring into the city. There are many businesses here in central Indiana that could make the same argument for government funding...

    Leave a comment:


  • daschysta
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    I'd guess Seattle, maybe Louisville, but the Pacers aren't going anywhere, this should go more smoothly than last time, given team performance and the new CBA lessening, even if slightly the burden placed on smaller market teams financially.

    Leave a comment:


  • hoosierguy
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    Originally posted by BillS View Post
    Obviously not this one, so the offer from another city doesn't HAVE to be this big. If nothing else, the "new team" honeymoon attendance boost for 5 years for a team poised to go to the next level is enough to make another city with even a comparable offer attractive.
    So what city fits this criteria? Kansas City? Omaha (yeah right)? Any others?

    Leave a comment:


  • hoosierguy
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    At any rate, I expect the CIB to continue their subsidy, albeit at a reduced amount. The CIB's financial situation is improved from 2010 with the improving economy and expanded convention center bringing in additional visitors to spend money in the DT area. The Pacers' financial situation has improved as well- attendance will continue to rise and money from the revenue sharing agreements in the new CBA will start flowing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hicks
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
    PS&E paid for the study, so there is that.

    edit: didn't realize that site makes you register before you can view it, this one should work for anybody

    http://www.mediafire.com/view/?v0xbyyyj213r8v8
    To those that did not click, the summary conclusion/assumption from PS&E is that as of 2010, losing the Pacers would result in an annual net loss of economic activity in Indianapolis of $55,000,000, an annual net loss to Indianapolis Government Bodies (fiscal impact) of $17,800,000, and 909 permanent full-time equivalent jobs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Heisenberg
    replied
    Re: Soon it will be time to start paying attention to the Pacers/CIB deal again, new star article 7/15/12

    Originally posted by Hicks View Post
    I wonder if there's ever been a thorough investigation/evaluation as to whether or not the presence of the Pacers in Indianapolis makes the city money or not when considering the city's investment into the franchise/arena?
    PS&E paid for the study, so there is that.

    edit: didn't realize that site makes you register before you can view it, this one should work for anybody

    http://www.mediafire.com/view/?v0xbyyyj213r8v8

    Leave a comment:

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