After 5 games what are your biggest concerns?

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  • spazzxb
    replied
    Originally posted by vnzla81
    Maybe your view of sucking is different than mine.
    probably, I am normally looking down. Lol just kidding

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

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  • vnzla81
    replied
    Re: After 5 games what are your biggest concerns?

    Originally posted by Ant
    DWest hasnt been "sucking" imo. He had one pretty rough game, as well as the entire team for that matter sans Hibbert. I wouldnt call his clutch runner vs Toronto or the intangibles he has brought to the team "sucking". Plus the dude is rounding his way into basketball shape and coming off a significant knee injury. Just because you are not a fan of his and have some kind of strange biased against him doesnt mean he has been sucking. He clearly has been a bright spot and brings something this team has desperately needed.
    Maybe your view of sucking is different than mine.

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  • J7F
    replied
    I am most concerned with the ball handling and passing skills of our two starting wing players... Something that I am hopeful George will improve on... Danny though seems to actually be regressing in these departments... And that is bad when he was never good at them to start with...

    Tyler coming off the bench... Is it a coincidence that his two best games (in the preseason) had him starting? Does he maybe feel less pressure to score as a starter therefore causing him to let the game come to him as opposed to forcing things? I don't know...

    The use of Lance over AJ at backup point... I feel AJ is better there RIGHT NOW... I understand the purpose of getting Lance out there to get his game on and see if he can develop like many believe he can, but it is hurting us RIGHT NOW... BTW - I keep emphasizing RIGHT NOW because I do think Project Give Lance A Chance could benefit us in the long run... I'm not banking on it though...

    Our offensive game plan is way too simple and I feel it is a big reason for our struggles on that side of the ball... The opposing teams know what we are trying to do 90% of the time... Vogel seems to have taken us to the complete opposite of JOB ball in this regard when somewhere in between would prolly be ideal... Then again the shortened preseason and less practice time throughout the weeks of the season coupled with Frank's focus on D through training camp and preseason could have a lot to do with this... We should be improved there by mid-season...

    Overall I'm not worried though... This is still the best team we've had in years... We have a young team so I expect things to get better with them... And we still have all that cap space if we need to shake up or shore up the roster close to the trade deadline... I still expect us to make the playoffs and give a good fight at the very least... And a trip to the Finals is our ceiling... Gonna be a crazy year!

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  • spazzxb
    replied
    Re: After 5 games what are your biggest concerns?

    My biggest frustration is Danny, but I expect his game to come around. I am a bit impatient With George, but he is ahead of where people said he would be when we drafted him. Most said it would take him a couple of years to develop.

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  • Scot Pollard
    replied
    Re: After 5 games what are your biggest concerns?

    Originally posted by Naptown_Seth
    I did add the post to counter the negative tone. But the thread exists for a reason, which is the play against Chicago and Miami suggest this team is not ready for the prime-time and not really very dialed in.

    The NJ game was ugly as can be as was the Detroit loss.


    Lots of positives to be seen, but overall offensive flow is not one of them.

    It is the best structured roster in years. I just don't need to rant about it because I don't think many people debate it. Less words but it carries as much positive weight as all the offensive problems discussion does. It's no small thing to have balance, youth and an enviable cap position.
    How was the NJ game ugly? I thought it was one of our best games.

    I believe we'll reach expectations in the end. This team is just too good to not finish in a good spot.

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  • Naptown_Seth
    replied
    Re: After 5 games what are your biggest concerns?

    Originally posted by Scot Pollard
    We have a good team and I don't see the worry.

    Plenty of teams have gotten off to shakey starts, but I wouldn't say 4-2 is bad.

    I'm still confident we'll reach expectations this season and get the 5th or so seed in the East.
    I did add the post to counter the negative tone. But the thread exists for a reason, which is the play against Chicago and Miami suggest this team is not ready for the prime-time and not really very dialed in.

    The NJ game was ugly as can be as was the Detroit loss.


    Lots of positives to be seen, but overall offensive flow is not one of them.

    It is the best structured roster in years. I just don't need to rant about it because I don't think many people debate it. Less words but it carries as much positive weight as all the offensive problems discussion does. It's no small thing to have balance, youth and an enviable cap position.

    Leave a comment:


  • Naptown_Seth
    replied
    Re: After 5 games what are your biggest concerns?

    Originally posted by Brad8888
    So, how do you see the team developing a passing game to facilitate a more complex finish to plays to overcome the opposing defenses? What should we look for to see if this is progressing?
    Well there is something about the spacing on the PnR hedge for sure, DC often doesn't have a return path. So what you can do if that's wasted space or a wasted unguarded man is use him to go screen for the intended shooter instead.

    You show PnR and you set up so their "roll" cover defender is going to come off a shooter. Have West (example) come set the screen for Danny or Paul coming to the top. They already do a rotation to come up and take the pass back across the top when DC gets stuck, so why not setup low, come up the lane and let the roll man screen him off instead.

    Something along those lines. Because the other tradeoff on a double/hedge is that there will be nobody with that man to switch if he sets a screen, and often the recovering player that comes back off the double doesn't realize that he's needed in a switch because it's already happened.


    But that's just high PnR. I think the wing PnSlips are working more than some of the other stuff because teams are doubling it hard and that bounce pass from the wings is more available past the double.

    But then the counter there is to rotate as we are slipping and Miami did that last night on Lou. If you know they are going to do it then maybe you can also slash the lane from the weak elbow and give the Slip guy a bounce pass layup option behind the guy coming across to stop the slip.


    That's the kind of "next layer" I'm getting at. Maybe Vogel just hasn't been able to get them to that awareness or comfort yet, or maybe they haven't cranked up the playbook to that next level.

    But teams have given up advantages to be aggressive with a lot of doubles or traps and so far the team has been mostly caught off guard with no counter-measures in place.




    T'Bird would be a lot more helpful here.

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  • Scot Pollard
    replied
    Re: After 5 games what are your biggest concerns?

    Originally posted by Hicks
    Speaking for myself, I'm getting to a point where I'm only happy when the Pacers are playing at a level that typically gets you to the conference finals (and good enough to perhaps win it), and obviously it's been many years since that has been the case. Personally, I'm really starting to starve for it, and I guess I'm getting tired of waiting for it.
    We have a good team and I don't see the worry.

    Plenty of teams have gotten off to shakey starts, but I wouldn't say 4-2 is bad.

    I'm still confident we'll reach expectations this season and get the 5th or so seed in the East.

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  • Hicks
    replied
    Re: After 5 games what are your biggest concerns?

    Originally posted by Scot Pollard
    Why are people on here so negative all the time?
    Speaking for myself, I'm getting to a point where I'm only happy when the Pacers are playing at a level that typically gets you to the conference finals (and good enough to perhaps win it), and obviously it's been many years since that has been the case. Personally, I'm really starting to starve for it, and I guess I'm getting tired of waiting for it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scot Pollard
    replied
    Re: After 5 games what are your biggest concerns?

    Originally posted by Ant
    DWest hasnt been "sucking" imo. He had one pretty rough game, as well as the entire team for that matter sans Hibbert. I wouldnt call his clutch runner vs Toronto or the intangibles he has brought to the team "sucking". Plus the dude is rounding his way into basketball shape and coming off a significant knee injury. Just because you are not a fan of his and have some kind of strange biased against him doesnt mean he has been sucking. He clearly has been a bright spot and brings something this team has desperately needed.
    Yeah I don't know what he's watching or he feels the need to be bitter given every chance he gets.

    West has done well for us.

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  • Scot Pollard
    replied
    Re: After 5 games what are your biggest concerns?

    Why are people on here so negative all the time?

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  • Brad8888
    replied
    Re: After 5 games what are your biggest concerns?

    Originally posted by Naptown_Seth
    Sorry for a third, but to counter the downer post which was only due to the topic, I do like what Vogel is trying to do and how he's rotating the players in general. I can see how he's trying to get things interacting and that he wants to be an inside-out team with lots of PnR action.

    The roster balance is sound, the concepts are sound. They're just too basic right now and not being executed as well as a team that is relying on balance instead of a superstar needs to be executing them.


    But it CAN WORK with this group. They do have solid diversity of talents.

    I think this is all a by-product of what I'm talking about. I don't think there is much after that initial attack point which is why shots go up and things break down. You can see opportunities that might be taken but the team as a group doesn't seem to anticipate them at this point.

    And has been true even in the wins. This isn't a sour grapes thing. To me the NJ game looked as bad as the Miami game on the offensive end.
    So, how do you see the team developing a passing game to facilitate a more complex finish to plays to overcome the opposing defenses? What should we look for to see if this is progressing?

    Leave a comment:


  • Pacerized
    replied
    Re: After 5 games what are your biggest concerns?

    5 games is too soon to measure this team. My concerns right now are scoring in the paint, and passing.
    I do think everyone is being a little critical over Danny while West seems to get a free pass. I'm happy to have West and I expect him to improve as he continues to recover but right now he's not exactly the all star pf that he was. Just like Danny West is an x all star, and he makes almost as much money. Danny puts up 15 and 5 boards yet he sucks because he isn't leading this team past the Heat. West puts up 11 and 7 boards and he can do no wrong. Danny's shot isn't falling but I expect that to turn around in the next few games. He'll end up averaging at least 18 ppg. If West could improve to this point we might be real contenders but West has a longer way to go.

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  • Naptown_Seth
    replied
    Re: After 5 games what are your biggest concerns?

    Sorry for a third, but to counter the downer post which was only due to the topic, I do like what Vogel is trying to do and how he's rotating the players in general. I can see how he's trying to get things interacting and that he wants to be an inside-out team with lots of PnR action.

    The roster balance is sound, the concepts are sound. They're just too basic right now and not being executed as well as a team that is relying on balance instead of a superstar needs to be executing them.


    But it CAN WORK with this group. They do have solid diversity of talents.



    Originally posted by skyfire
    I'd just like to see some faster and more consistent ball movement. When they've moved the ball well, it creates good shots and our postups are more successful because we the defense has been moved around.

    When we go to the primary option, which draws multiple defenders, then just force something up, we turning it over or putting up a bad shot.

    The PGs don't seem to where to offense is meant to go. There seems to be a lot of dribbling around but going nowhere, then we get to the first option when the shot clock is down to <10secs.
    I think this is all a by-product of what I'm talking about. I don't think there is much after that initial attack point which is why shots go up and things break down. You can see opportunities that might be taken but the team as a group doesn't seem to anticipate them at this point.

    And has been true even in the wins. This isn't a sour grapes thing. To me the NJ game looked as bad as the Miami game on the offensive end.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 01-05-2012, 10:18 PM.

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  • skyfire
    replied
    Re: After 5 games what are your biggest concerns?

    I'd just like to see some faster and more consistent ball movement. When they've moved the ball well, it creates good shots and our postups are more successful because the defense has been moved around.

    When we go to the primary option, which draws multiple defenders, then just force something up, we turning it over or putting up a bad shot.

    The PGs don't seem to where to offense is meant to go. There seems to be a lot of dribbling around but going nowhere, then we get to the first option when the shot clock is down to <10secs.
    Last edited by skyfire; 01-05-2012, 10:17 PM.

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