The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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[B]Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons[/B] (KStat where ya at)

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  • [B]Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons[/B] (KStat where ya at)

    We all know that the Detroit Pistons aren’t exactly in a magical place right now, but despite their current lull there’s no denying the fact that this franchise has seen its fair share of glory. This is definitely an organization with a long list of really great players, so putting together a list of just five isn’t easy. This is a team with plenty of honorable mentions, but before we look at who missed the list, let’s have a look at who made it:

    #5 – Dennis Rodman (1986-1993)

    What he did for the Pistons: Before Rodman dyed one single strand of hair one single crazy color, he was a short-shorts-wearing bruiser big man for the two-time champion Detroit Pistons. His career rebounding numbers are overwhelming—fourth all-time in offensive boards, tenth all-time in rebounds per game, and several rebounding titles—but it should be noted that he did plenty of that while playing for the Pistons. During his tenure in Detroit he led the league in offensive rebounds three times, defensive rebounds once, and total rebounds twice. He was a two-time All-Star, five-time All-Defensive Team selection, and even got named to the All-NBA Third Team in 1993.

    Worth noting: Earlier this year the Pistons retired Rodman’s #10 jersey, and a few months later he was inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame. So there’s that, too.

    #4 – Bob Lanier (1970-1980)

    What he did for the Pistons: We generally consider a season in which a player scores 20 ppg and hauls in 10 rpg a pretty good season. Someone who averages those numbers of the course of his entire career is usually a Hall of Famer. That’s the case with Bob Lanier, a former #1 overall pick and seven-time All-Star for the Detroit Pistons. His #16 jersey is retired by the team, and he’ll long be considered one of the best players in the franchise’s history.

    Worth noting: Lanier had pretty big feet (size 22). Patrons who visit the Basketball Hall of Fame can measure their own shoe size to his. To compare, Shaquille O’Neal wears a size 23.

    #3 – Dave Bing (1966-1975)

    What he did for the Pistons: There weren’t a lot of point guards like Dave Bing in his era. He possessed the combination of traditional point guard skills and scoring ability that modern scouts still look for in well-round floor leaders. While playing for Detroit, Bing was named Rookie of the Year his first season, then later was named to six All-Star teams and three All-NBA Teams. Like all the other players in the top five, Bing had his jersey retired by the team and is a member of the Hall of Fame. He’s pretty easily the best non-Bad-Boy Piston the franchise has ever seen.

    Worth noting: Today, Bing is the mayor of Detroit. So I guess you could say he’s pretty popular there.

    #2 – Joe Dumars (1985-1999)

    What he did for the Pistons: Dumars’ contributions to the Detroit Pistons span the better part of the last 25 years, both as a player and then later as the team’s GM. As a player he was one of the toughest defenders in history, a talent that would get him named to five All-Defensive Teams during his uninterrupted career as a Piston. He was also a six-time All-Star, three-time All-NBA Team selection, and NBA Finals MVP in 1989, the team’s first NBA Championship. His #4 is retired by the team, he’s a Hall of Famer, and Michael Jordan once called him the toughest defender he ever played against. All that certainly counts for something.

    What also counts for something is the fact that he put together a team in 2003 that would go on to win the first championship since his own Pistons group last did it in 1990. He was voted Executive of the Year in 2003, and that wasn’t even the year his team won rings.

    Worth noting: The man passed up Carmelo Anthony and Dwyane Wade in the 2003 draft for Darko Milicic. Whatever else he did right as a GM, history will never forgive him for that.

    #1 – Isiah Thomas (1981-1994)

    What he did for the Pistons: Dumars’ backcourt mate, Isiah Thomas, was one of the nastiest little point guards the league has ever seen. He may have been one of the most hated basketball players in the history of the game (and, for that matter, one of the most hated executives in the history of the game), but the man could play some serious basketball. He is, naturally, a Hall of Famer with his jersey retired by the team, mostly because he’s the franchise leader in minutes played, field goals made and attempted, free throws made and attempted, points, and assists, and steals. He’s got two championships under his belt as a player, and he was the Finals MVP in 1990. He played in 12 All-Star games, was named to five All-NBA teams, and is sixth in NBA history in assists.

    He only won two championships, but if Michael Jordan didn’t exist it probably would’ve been closer to four or five. Despite that, Thomas always showed amazing grit as a player despite his size, and his ability to take over games puts him in a very special class of Hall of Famers that transcend many other players who also are in the Hall. He’s one of the best ever, period, and easily the best Piston.

    Worth noting: Thomas is blamed for the downfall of the Continental Basketball Association and the early-to-mid 2000’s New York Knicks. He could play some ball, sure, but running things from a business standpoint really never has been his thing.

    Honorable Mention:

    Richard Hamilton (2002-present)

    What he did for the Pistons: Whether the team buys him out via amnesty, trades him, or just holds onto him until his contract expires, one thing seems fairly certain regarding Hamilton and the Pistons—their happy times together are more or less over. Despite that fact, Rip played the best years of his life in Motown, including major contributions to the 2004 championship team. He’s a three-time All-Star, all with Detroit, and he led the league in three-point field goal percentage in 2006. Those aren’t completely overwhelming career numbers, which is why he isn’t in the top five, but it’s certainly a body of work worthy of honorable mention, which is why we mention him.

    Worth noting: If Ben Wallace retires and Hamilton remains on the Pistons for another season, he will officially be the last remaining member of that 2004 Pistons team. Even Wallace, who returned to the team after brief stints with Chicago and Cleveland, hasn’t played in Detroit every consecutive year since the title. Only Rip can say he’s done that.

    Bill Laimbeer (1982-1994)

    What he did for the Pistons: Laimbeer was a bad, bad man. Easily one of the most villainous players in league history, he also happens to be the franchise’s all-time leader in offensive, defensive, and total rebounds. He led the league in total boards in 1984 and 1986, and he also led in defensive rebounds and rebounds per game in ’86. He was a four-time NBA All-Star in Detroit and had his #40 jersey retired by the team. If ever there was a player that put the “Bad Boy” in “Bad Boy Pistons,” it would be Bill Laimbeer.

    Worth noting: Laimbeer played a season in Italy before making his NBA debut with the Cleveland Cavaliers in 1980. He also appeared in a small role for the original “Land of the Lost” television series right after graduating high school.

    Ben Wallace (2000-2006, 2009-present)

    What he did for the Pistons: Every championship team has that one blue-collar guy that the fans love not for his points but for the little things he does to help a team win a championship. When the Pistons were visiting the Eastern Conference Finals seemingly every year in the middle of the 21st century’s first decade, Ben Wallace was definitely that guy. He’s the Pistons’ all-time franchise leader in blocks, and he also was among the best in the league for several seasons in rebounding. He was named the NBA’s Defensive Player of the Year four times, made five All-Defensive Teams, was named to four All-Star teams, and five All-NBA Teams. His window of greatness was a relatively small one, which is why he’s not higher on this list, but that window was admittedly pretty amazing while it was open.

    Worth noting: The minute Wallace left Detroit for a $60 million contract in Chicago during the summer of 2006, his rebounding and defensive skills seemed to degenerate by about 50%. Leaving the Motor City was like the equivalent of cutting off Samson’s hair, which is why it made so much sense when Big Ben returned to the Pistons in 2009. Ironically, when he returned to the team, his vintage afro/cornrow braids were gone.

    Grant Hill (1994-2000)

    What he did for the Pistons: Well, before he signed that contract with the Orlando Magic in the fabled summer of 2000, Hill gave the Pistons the best years of his career. The 1995 Co-Rookie of the Year quickly blossomed into a triple-double machine, earning his way onto five All-Star Teams and five All-NBA Teams. Had he not gotten hurt, Hill would’ve been a sure thing first-ballot Hall of Famer. With all the injuries he experienced, though, all we have is those six great seasons in Detroit as a body of work. As good as he’s been in Phoenix, those have hardly padded his statistics enough to get him into the Hall at all.

    Worth noting: In his six seasons with the Orlando Magic, Hill only played in more than 30 games twice, 2004-2005 (67 games) and 2006-2007 (65 games). In his first three seasons with the team, he played in a total of 47 games. Talk about money that was most certainly not well-spent… At least Detroit got what they paid for. More, actually, considering Hill played much of it for rookie contract dollars.

    Chauncey Billups (2002-2008)

    What he did for the Pistons: Easily one of the best leaders the team has ever had, Billups meant a whole lot more to this organization than the stats ever showed. That said, the stats weren’t so bad either—Billups was a two-time All-Defensive Team selection, a two-time All-NBA Team selection, and a three-time NBA All-Star while he played for Detroit. He also was the Finals MVP in 2004 when the Pistons won the championship, and he’s sixth all-time in three-point field goals made and career free throw percentage. Take all that and wrap up with the man’s leadership abilities and uncanny penchant to nail the clutch shot, and you’ve got yourself one of the best Pistons ever. One, by the way, who barely missed the top five.

    Worth noting: Players this good rarely move around as much over the course of their careers as Billups did, but the New York Knicks are the man’s sixth professional team, including two stints with the Denver Nuggets. He played for four teams in his first five seasons before landing with the Pistons and breaking out, proving that you really never can tell when some players will come into their own.

    There have been a lot of really good Pistons over the years, but these are the best. Is there anybody we missed? Feel free to hit up the comments with players who should’ve at least gotten onto the honorable mention list.
    Sittin on top of the world!

  • #2
    Re: Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons (KStat where ya at)

    Haha, I almost thought Bill Laimbeer was on there twice. Then I looked against and realized it was Bill Lanier.


    • #3
      Re: Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons (KStat where ya at)

      Bing above Lanier is silly, but Dennis Rodman above Ben Wallace is ridiculous.

      Rodman did not accomplish nearly what Ben Wallace did here.
      Last edited by Kstat; 11-07-2011, 02:54 PM.

      It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

      Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
      Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
      NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004


      • #4
        Re: Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons (KStat where ya at)

        Originally posted by Kstat View Post
        Bing above Lanier is silly, but Dennis Rodman above Ben Wallace is ridiculous.

        Rodman did not accomplish nearly what Ben Wallace did here.
        He probably did more for Chicago/San Antonio
        Sittin on top of the world!


        • #5
          Re: Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons (KStat where ya at)

          Ya Lanier should be top 3 IMO and maybe even top 2. I have watched lots of film on him and that guy was so dominate he was a beast back in the day.


          • #6
            Re: Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons (KStat where ya at)

            Originally posted by Kstat View Post
            Bing above Lanier is silly, . . .
            lanier had the softest hands with the ball. like chris weber only better hands. big huge body would make a move and the ball would just float out when he shot it.

            he wasn't better than thomas, but should be #2


            • #7
              Re: Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons (KStat where ya at)

              This is like going onto a religous forum and talking about the top 5 great deeds of satan!


              • #8
                Re: Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons (KStat where ya at)

                When Rip/Chauncey/Tayshuan/Ben/Sheed were on the same page, they were truly a Team that could execute during crunch time against the best Teams in the League.

                I may not like the Pistons Teams in the early to mid 2000s, but I respect them as a Team and Organization.
                Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.


                • #9
                  Re: Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons (KStat where ya at)

                  Ben Wallace, Detroit Pistons
                  NBA Defensive Player of the Year (4x)
                  NBA All-Defensive 1st Team (5x)
                  NBA All-NBA 2nd Team (3x)
                  NBA All-NBA 3rd Team (2x)
                  NBA All-Star (4x)
                  NBA League Leader - BPG
                  NBA League Leader - RPG (2x)
                  NBA World Champion

                  Dennis Rodman, Detroit Pistons
                  NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2x)
                  NBA All-Defensive 1st Team (5x)
                  NBA All-NBA 3rd Team
                  NBA All-Star (2x)
                  NBA League Leader - FG%
                  NBA League Leader - RPG (2x)
                  NBA World Champion (2x)

                  Rodman had the better career, primarily due to longevity, but I think Ben Wallace had a better stint with the Pistons. Roughly 95% of Ben's success came in Detroit, whereas Dennis had a long, successful career, post-Detroit.

                  When I think of those Detroit teams of the 2000s, including the 2004 championship team, the first person who comes to mind is Ben Wallace. When I think those Detroit teams of the late-'80s-to-early-'90s, I think of Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars well ahead of Rodman, and probably Bill Laimbeer, too.
                  Last edited by Lance George; 11-07-2011, 05:28 PM.


                  • #10
                    Re: Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons (KStat where ya at)

                    What no Microwave?
                    Sittin on top of the world!


                    • #11
                      Re: Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons (KStat where ya at)

                      He shouldn't be on anybody's top-10 list. He was never one of the two best guards on his own team.

                      You could have an entire pool of 2nd-tier guys, though. He'd be on it, along with Long, Sheed, Tayshaun, Dantley, Tripuka, etc.
                      Last edited by Kstat; 11-07-2011, 08:28 PM.

                      It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                      Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                      Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                      NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004


                      • #12
                        Re: Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons (KStat where ya at)

                        Originally posted by Kstat View Post
                        He shouldn't be on anybody's top-10 list. He was never one of the two best guards on his own team.

                        You could have an entire pool of 2nd-tier guys, though. He'd be on it, along with Long, Sheed, Tayshaun, Dantley, Tripuka, etc.
                        i always thought sheed was under appreciated. i get he's not in the top 5 at all, but he always seemed the guy that made everything work right. he just did what needed to be done night in and night out. plus he could defend anyone better than they could defend him. seemed his BBIQ was off the charts good.


                        • #13
                          Re: Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons (KStat where ya at)

                          It just goes to show you though why they have 3 titles & several conf. finals to their names and we only have conf. finals & runner up series.

                          Look at the number of quality players on that roster and then try and name 10 Pacers who could match up.

                          The honerable mention group is probably better than almost any of the top 10 players we would throw out there, with a couple of exceptions.

                          It's funny because unlike L.A. or Boston they have not been able to buy their way into a title. They have always either drafted very wisely or made very astute trades.

                          Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13


                          • #14
                            Re: Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons (KStat where ya at)

                            To be fair, the Pistons have been around much longer.

                            I will agree they are one of the unique NBA franchises, in that they are really the only team since the 80'sto break into the very exclusive "club" of NBA champions without relying on sheer star power. They've always been able to think outside the box and find ways around conventional NBA championship wisdom.

                            IMO, the Pistons wouldn't be the only team to win big without superstars if they weren't the only team really trying it.
                            Last edited by Kstat; 11-08-2011, 06:27 AM.

                            It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                            Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                            Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                            NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004


                            • #15
                              Re: Top 5 All-Time Detroit Pistons (KStat where ya at)

                              Originally posted by Kstat View Post
                              IMO, the Pistons wouldn't be the only team to win big without superstars if they weren't the only team really trying it.
                              good point. maybe with the big market teams trying to build 'big three' teams, more of the small market teams will take this route.