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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

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  • 15th parallel
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    Originally posted by cordobes View Post
    Why?

    The Pacers are solid defensively and already have a perimeter stopper; but they often lack scoring ability. With Wallace replacing Granger, their offense would be even easier to thwart. He'd help a bit on the boards, but he's still a wing, the difference on the overall team rebounding would be marginal.
    This.

    We lose more games not because of our inability to stop guys from scoring, but because we struggle on the offensive end. Rather than trade Granger for Wallace, why not move other pieces to get Wallace? Wallace can start at the 4 for us, and while Granger can score up to long range, Wallace can do damage inside by driving into the lane. That's a 1-2 punch for the Pacers IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • King Phoenix
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    Hey didn't they want tj before? Do you guys think we can sneak him in to get Wallace? Don't really care if we get him rather have Josh smith even more than iquodala but I wouldn't be totally against it. Do they have any big men we can take off their hands?

    Leave a comment:


  • cordobes
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
    They play the same position, but play it in entirely different ways. I think that Wallace's skills better compliment the rest of the team than Granger's. The biggest thing for me is that he is committed to playing defense every single night. Not just on the occasions he deems it necessary. Granger is mostly a jump shooter, and we have plenty of those on the team.
    Why?

    The Pacers are solid defensively and already have a perimeter stopper; but they often lack scoring ability. With Wallace replacing Granger, their offense would be even easier to thwart. He'd help a bit on the boards, but he's still a wing, the difference on the overall team rebounding would be marginal.

    Leave a comment:


  • MLB007
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    Originally posted by esabyrn333 View Post
    I wouldn't give up more than Dunleavy or Ford and a first round pick for him.

    Peronally I am hoping to get AI from Philly for something like Dun, George and a first.




    Leave a comment:


  • MLB007
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
    Adam Morrison, one of the worst picks ever
    I can remember some here wanting to trade for him because he was going to set the world on fire.

    Leave a comment:


  • xBulletproof
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
    They play the same position, but play it in entirely different ways. I think that Wallace's skills better compliment the rest of the team than Granger's. The biggest thing for me is that he is committed to playing defense every single night. Not just on the occasions he deems it necessary. Granger is mostly a jump shooter, and we have plenty of those on the team.
    Wallace is also a player more dependent on living off his athleticism. He's also going to be more beat up because of his play style. My guess is Granger will have a longer shelf life on his career.

    Secondly, why worry about what fits when you're nowhere near being a title contender? Championship contenders worry about parts fitting, pretenders should worry about getting enough talent to be considered contenders, not making parts fit so you can contend for a chance to be booted from the playoffs in 4 games.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mackey_Rose
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    Originally posted by cdash View Post
    Why? What would be the point of a lateral move like that? Neither is clearly superior to the other, they basically play the same position, neither is capable of being the alpha dog on a title winning team. All a Wallace-for-Granger swap would do is confuse the fanbase and trade away the face of your franchise. Doesn't seem to make any sense to me.
    They play the same position, but play it in entirely different ways. I think that Wallace's skills better compliment the rest of the team than Granger's. The biggest thing for me is that he is committed to playing defense every single night. Not just on the occasions he deems it necessary. Granger is mostly a jump shooter, and we have plenty of those on the team.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trophy
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    No need to settle.

    We don't need either of these players. Especially SJax.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1984
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
    I would definitely be willing to consider a Granger for Wallace swap.
    You're being sarcastic, right?

    Leave a comment:


  • PR07
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    I think Granger's a better player than Wallace. At least Granger has the ability to be a #1 scorer for a team (not saying it's his ideal spot), as I just don't see that from Gerald Wallace.

    Leave a comment:


  • cordobes
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    Gerald Wallace is a top-5 wing defender in the NBA. Granger's production is too uneven. Advantage for Wallace there. Wallace is an above average rebounder for a SF (his numbers are inflated due to the minutes he plays at the 4 - and some of them alongside a very poor rebounder like Diaw), Granger is average. Advantage for Wallace too.

    Offensively, I've been impressed with Gerald Wallace's growth under Larry Brown. His decision making is much improved; he used to be unable to play within an actual offense; needed to be force fed the ball in isolations. He was better as a 4, but his defense and rebounding weren't consistent enough there. A different, taller, less prolific Corey Maggette. Anyway, he's a much better player now than 2 or 3 years ago. However, he's still a tertiary scoring option and not much of a playmaker. A player who gets 1/5 of his offense in transition, will hit the occasional spot-up jumper but essentially needs very favourable matchups to create his shot. Granger is capable of dropping 25 points per game on extremely high efficiency, he's slightly better as a passer, he's more versatile and quite better as a shooter. There's a huge gap here. Granger can be the first scoring option in a title team - even if not the best player; Wallace isn't even close to that territory. If you asked Wallace to score as much as Granger, his efficiency would decline dramatically. Wallace is too dependent on transition + cuts being a large part of his baskets to keep his efficiency up.

    When Granger plays quality defense, he's a way better player than Gerald Wallace and less of an injury risk. Even with Granger's inconsistent defense + rebounding, he'd still be quite more valuable for pretty much every team in the NBA.

    Leave a comment:


  • focused444
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    Originally posted by Kstat View Post
    they're both athletic big wing types that excel at perimeter defense and crashing the basket. The difference is Igoudala takes way more jumpers than he should, and Gerald doesn't stray outside of what he does well. Iggy is generally less reliable because he often tries to do too much.
    In Igoudala's case do you think it's because of his team asking him to do so much? Could change in the right role? Or is this a flaw in his game that will stick with him for his career?

    Now that I think back to the team USA games this summer, I do remember thinking to myself IGGY was taking about 2-3 jump shots a game too many.

    As for Wallace, is it Larry Brown, personal discipline, or both that keep him playing with in his skill set?

    Leave a comment:


  • cdash
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
    I would definitely be willing to consider a Granger for Wallace swap.
    Why? What would be the point of a lateral move like that? Neither is clearly superior to the other, they basically play the same position, neither is capable of being the alpha dog on a title winning team. All a Wallace-for-Granger swap would do is confuse the fanbase and trade away the face of your franchise. Doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • cordobes
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    Originally posted by BringJackBack View Post
    Is this due to a his aging (as in losing quickness, explosiveness, and all that), nagging injuries, or not motivated? Let us remember that he is a very good athlete who is at that age where it begins to fade away.

    Yes. The Bobcats SHOULD trade him for a young player like George or a James Harden, Danillo Gallinari, or a Ty Lawson- guys that have high ceilings.

    But would they? Are Brown & Jordan too stubborn to throw in the towel and rebuild? I believe they are.

    I have no idea who i'd pick right now if I had to, but Iggy is more healthy than Wallace and younger. On the other hand, Wallace is a more matured player and doesn't try to do too much, while he takes up less cap space.
    I really don't know but I don't think it's permanent, he's only 28. I think it's some sort of injury they aren't disclosing. A plantar fasciitis, that type of thing (just speculation). He was looking good in the first couple games I saw.

    It's Stephen Jackson that is starting to show his age, I believe. His defense dropped quite a bit against quicker players. He's on his way downhill.

    Rebuilding is not the type of thing one would expect Larry Brown to be involved with, I agree, but I don't know if he's staying. I have no clue about Jordan's intentions. I don't believe he has any illusions about the ability of this current core to compete for a title regardless of how hard he tries to retool.

    Leave a comment:


  • BringJackBack
    replied
    Re: Here's our chance: Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson being shopped

    Originally posted by cordobes View Post
    Wallace is looking very bad this season. He's not moving well, not getting separation on his shots. Maybe some minor injury or just a moment of bad form. Curious to see how soon it takes him to regain his form. I hope Tyrus Thomas starts playing more now, he deserves more minutes.

    The Bobcats should trade him for a good (but not elite) prospect in a rookie contract. They aren't going anywhere with this core. I'd love to trade him for Paul George if I were Charlotte. Then try to trade Jackson for a lower level prospect.

    I think Iggy's playmaking/ball-handling makes him more valuable than Wallace. He's a better shot-creator too. And a way better fit next to Granger. I wouldn't even hesitate between the two.
    Is this due to a his aging (as in losing quickness, explosiveness, and all that), nagging injuries, or not motivated? Let us remember that he is a very good athlete who is at that age where it begins to fade away.

    Yes. The Bobcats SHOULD trade him for a young player like George or a James Harden, Danillo Gallinari, or a Ty Lawson- guys that have high ceilings.

    But would they? Are Brown & Jordan too stubborn to throw in the towel and rebuild? I believe they are.

    I have no idea who i'd pick right now if I had to, but Iggy is more healthy than Wallace and younger. On the other hand, Wallace is a more matured player and doesn't try to do too much, while he takes up less cap space.
    Last edited by BringJackBack; 12-17-2010, 05:22 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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