Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

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  • McKeyFan
    Intuition over Integers
    • Jan 2004
    • 14993

    Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

    Sure. We won. T.J. played very well for T.J. And I'm happy for him.

    But I am concerned that the long term consequences of JOB letting T.J. finish the game outweigh the short term benefits.

    First of all, we don't know that letting Collison play the fourth quarter would have not have also led to a win. I tend to think it would have. Probably about a 50/50 prospect.

    Although T.J. played well, he did miss another free throw down the stretch and there was a critical possession in the last minute or so where he kept the ball the entire time, then took a 15 foot jumper at the end of the clock that he missed. IMO, Collison would have done a better job of getting the other players involved.

    But here's my real concern/argument. Collison is our quarterback. He is clearly very good. He needs to develop and grow in that position, and he needs to be allowed to make some mistakes. He needs the confidence of the coach and some breathing room.

    So far, he's not getting that and we are only two games into the season. It's like allowing a quarterback controversy to emerge early in an NFL season. Hardly ever a good idea.

    Collison not playing good defense? Point it out to him and allow him to adjust during the game and learn about it after the game.

    Collison has one stagnant possession when he's subbed back in at the five minute mark? Don't yank him out of the game. Call a timeout and get the other offensive players to move properly (they WERE playing with TJ until then, you know).

    If last night's game was an anomaly, if TJ was getting extra burn to be showcased for Charlotte, if generally Collison will be acknowledged by JOB as our main quarterback except for extenuating circumstances, then I can live with it. If not, perhaps our most important player will be delayed a half year or year from becoming the excellent quarterback we all hope he will be.

    It worked out tonight, but T.J. won't be here in a year, and his performances are like fool's gold. We need to invest in the real thing.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 10-30-2010, 08:49 AM.
    "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

  • Bryan8831
    Member
    • Oct 2010
    • 25

    #2
    Re: Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

    It was upsetting to see him pull DC so quickly after sitting him for almost 30 mins. worth of real time. Then yank him before letting him get back in the flow of the game.

    Comment

    • idioteque
      hopeful
      • May 2006
      • 11432

      #3
      Re: Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

      I think you're overreacting to this.

      Collison to me is still our QB no matter what the result of today's game. Roleplayers like TJ are the kinds of guys who are going to look like worldbeaters out there 5-10 games a year every year. You've got to take advantage of those guys when they have "their" nights, you have to maximize their talents. TJ Ford may be the difference for you 3 or 4 times a season. But his utility is limited so you really have to be aware when he is.

      I'll be 100% with you if JOB keeps Ford in there for long durations when he's playing poorly and Collison is playing well. But I'm a pretty firm believer in giving role players their due when they're having an on-night, which can be somewhat rare, and Ford was having one last night.

      Comment

      • MagicRat
        ENABEABLER
        • Jan 2004
        • 7969

        #4
        Re: Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

        You'd better not read the @mikewellsnba article in the star this morning...........
        PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

        Comment

        • BillS
          Angry Old Poster
          • Mar 2004
          • 21636

          #5
          Re: Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

          I really don't get the idea of the NBA season as some sort of extended training camp, where you play the guys that are somehow "the future" even if the guys who supposedly aren't the future are doing well in the game.

          Collison's ego is not so fragile that being brought back out after not being able to get the ball to anyone for 3 plays in favor of a guy who seemed to be doing what he wanted with the ball is going to destroy his confidence. In this situation, the reason TJ was finishing this game was right in front of him.

          This idea that you learn from your mistakes by making them and then being left in the situation to continue making them until you somehow figure it out for yourself also boggles me. You learn from your mistakes by making them, being shown what the better alternative is, and then later getting the chance to try again. DC will definitely get that chance.

          I will agree that sometimes when JOB has gone for a vet over a young guy it hasn't been clear or even noticeable to some that the guy in the game is doing better, so let's PLEASE not make this about JOB "always" "never playing" the "young guys". Let's look at this situation and this game and realize that it was, perhaps for a change, the right thing and that DC is not going to be crushed by it.
          BillS

          A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
          Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

          Comment

          • dohman
            Remember #31
            • Nov 2006
            • 1363

            #6
            Re: Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

            We have to remember that collinson is a second year player and not superman. He did a great job last night and JOB thought it would be best for the team if TJ finish it out for the win. IT worked.

            Also dont forget we want TJ looking like a allstar by the break for potential trades. That is when his value will be the higest and teams will start calling.

            Comment

            • pacers74
              Member
              • Aug 2006
              • 2339

              #7
              Re: Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

              I want Collison finishing out the games, but I will let last night slide. Hopefully JOB just saw something in Ford, like the matchup or something and wanted to put him back in their. He scared me a couple of time dribbling too much, but he made a couple of nice passes and we either scored off of them or we got fouled.

              I think it was just like going with the hot hand. JOB put Collison back in and it looked like Ford was playing better, so he went back to Ford. Collison is still the answer at PG and is still way better than Ford, he is just more inexperienced than him.
              Last edited by pacers74; 10-30-2010, 09:47 AM.

              Comment

              • pacers74
                Member
                • Aug 2006
                • 2339

                #8
                Re: Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

                I take this quote as saying early in the season and hope JOB is truly going to let Collison grow and play at the end of the games by midseason. The quote is from Wells article this morning.

                “T.J. is a proven commodity down the stretch,” O’Brien said. “Right now with Darren only being in his second year, he’s not a proven commodity down the stretch. I fully expect (Ford) to be the guy in there at the end of games early in the season.”

                Comment

                • Justin Tyme
                  Member
                  • Mar 2008
                  • 13491

                  #9
                  Re: Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

                  Originally posted by idioteque
                  I think you're overreacting to this.

                  Collison to me is still our QB no matter what the result of today's game. Roleplayers like TJ are the kinds of guys who are going to look like worldbeaters out there 5-10 games a year every year. You've got to take advantage of those guys when they have "their" nights, you have to maximize their talents. TJ Ford may be the difference for you 3 or 4 times a season. But his utility is limited so you really have to be aware when he is.

                  I'll be 100% with you if JOB keeps Ford in there for long durations when he's playing poorly and Collison is playing well. But I'm a pretty firm believer in giving role players their due when they're having an on-night, which can be somewhat rare, and Ford was having one last night.

                  I totally agree. I couldn't have said it better. Ford played well and deserved to finish the game... this time. I have no problem with it.

                  Comment

                  • idioteque
                    hopeful
                    • May 2006
                    • 11432

                    #10
                    Re: Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

                    Originally posted by pacers74
                    I take this quote as saying early in the season and hope JOB is truly going to let Collison grow and play at the end of the games by midseason. The quote is from Wells article this morning.

                    “T.J. is a proven commodity down the stretch,” O’Brien said. “Right now with Darren only being in his second year, he’s not a proven commodity down the stretch. I fully expect (Ford) to be the guy in there at the end of games early in the season.”

                    http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsi...-in-charlotte/
                    I don't think there's anything wrong with this, although I bet it will make some heads explode. People here really forget that Collison, while possibly more talented than Ford and certainly with a higher ceiling, is barely not a rookie and was a backup most of last year. Let him ease in.

                    Comment

                    • Trophy
                      Member
                      • Mar 2009
                      • 8556

                      #11
                      Re: Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

                      I wasn't happy JOB played him more than Darren.

                      I mean we got Darren to play a bunch of minutes at PG not TJ.

                      Darren should've been in the closing minutes of that game because of his PG leadership, but hey we got the win and that's all that matters.

                      Comment

                      • BlueNGold
                        Banned
                        • Aug 2005
                        • 32247

                        #12
                        Re: Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

                        This is amazing. I actually agree with JOb. TJ is not a bad closer. But the more comforting part of his statement is that this is the plan for "early in the season". IOW, I think he wants Darren to be the man at the end as well. As a young player, I think he has some things to learn. In all honesty, I'm not convinced that Collison is better than AJ Price at the moment...but I need to see more games. Collison definitely shows the potential to be the best of the three...but I don't think his play is consistent enough...which is probably why TJ closed the game.

                        Comment

                        • Gamble1
                          Member
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 7255

                          #13
                          Re: Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

                          Originally posted by BlueNGold
                          This is amazing. I actually agree with JOb. TJ is not a bad closer. But the more comforting part of his statement is that this is the plan for "early in the season". IOW, I think he wants Darren to be the man at the end as well. As a young player, I think he has some things to learn. In all honesty, I'm not convinced that Collison is better than AJ Price at the moment...but I need to see more games. Collison definitely shows the potential to be the best of the three...but I don't think his play is consistent enough...which is probably why TJ closed the game.
                          IF TJ plays this well I won't mind him getting a bunch of minutes but the man crush on AJ is crazy to me.

                          As long as we win games I won't care one bit who starts or who finishes.

                          Comment

                          • vnzla81
                            Member
                            • Jul 2008
                            • 68006

                            #14
                            Re: Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

                            Yeah I also agree with the decision , Darren had an OK game, he was getting burn by Augustin and was kind of lost on defense at times, who knows maybe if he had a guy like Brandon or DJ he could have done better, somebody who could help contain drible penetration and keep his guy in front.
                            Last edited by vnzla81; 10-30-2010, 10:55 AM.
                            @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                            Comment

                            • BillS
                              Angry Old Poster
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 21636

                              #15
                              Re: Why I don't like TJ finishing the game

                              Originally posted by vnzla81
                              who knows maybe if he had a guy like Brandon or DJ he could have done better, somebody who could help contain drible penetration and keep his guy in front.
                              Yes, it will be interesting to see how we would adjust with a defensive specialist on the floor. My concern, though, is that our offense seems once again to be what is suffering, so pulling someone with an offensive bent (say, Dun) for someone to help lock down defense (like Rush) might help get more stops, but if we can't convert them it really doesn't help. There were some strings of stops without a Pacer score to show for it last night.

                              I really suspect that that - plus a desire not to use up limited availability unless very certain it will be positive - is why we don't see Foster. What he gives us on the defensive side just can't make up for the lack of offense when we are struggling to make open shots as it is. Giving the opponent's defense someone to rotate off of and challenge the open shots is the last thing we need.
                              BillS

                              A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                              Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                              Comment

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