I do not want to see this become a habit

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  • naptownmenace
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit

    Originally posted by Hicks
    I don't put the two together like a few of you seem to. I can understand the kicking bit being about frustration over all of the losing, but I cannot understand it being the reason for what I'm seeing tonight.

    When I see a player stopping to complain to the ref at the expense of getting back on defense, I see someone thinking about himself instead of his team, and in effect, putting himself before the team. I have a problem with that.

    Keep in mind, I love Danny Granger. I do not like typing any of this even remotely. I'm just concerned and in the short term I am disappointed.
    I definitely think that the "kicking incident" was frustration with himself. He bit on the shoulder fake and got burned and was PO'ed at himself for it.

    I don't like it when he complains to the refs but lately he has been getting hacked more often and not getting the call. I'm not worried about it right now because this hasn't been something I've seen very often.

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  • Jay@Section12
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit

    Well, he's had some "great" teachers/ mentors during his time in Indiana. What do you expect?

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  • Will Galen
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit

    Originally posted by Hicks
    Twice tonight versus the Bucks I have seen Danny fail to get back on defense before first complaining to an official.

    The first instance delayed him "only" about one second, but the second instance (which just happed moments before I came on PD to type this) was for at least 3 seconds, and that's just plain Jermaine O'Neal/Stephen Jackson style garbage right there.

    I really, really hope Danny knocks this crap off quickly. My opinion of him will permanently be down a notch if this becomes a new routine of his.

    Between this and his "kicking incident" after the Wizards game, color me moderately concerned about the direction he seems to be heading in. I hope this all-star appearance isn't going to his head. He's been the ultimate good guy/trooper/ideal lead guy up until now. I'd sincerely hate to see him start to go to a "darker" place now that he's seeing individual success.
    Sounds to me like something for OB's call in show. Or you could write an open letter to Granger and post it on here. In fact you could change the title of this thread to reflect your concern. I'm sure it would be drawn to Granger's attention.

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  • JHcutt18
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit

    I have been noticing this all year, it has been one of the only things that upsets me about his game. He can complain WHILE getting back on defense, and also at the dead ball, he doesn't have to stop or slow down just to complain...but with what he has done for us this season...if anybody has earned that right he has, although I don't agree with it.

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  • idioteque
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit

    Danny is human like anyone else and at this point right now I don't blame him. He is playing his heart out, playing All-Star capable ball, and playing injured on a team that statistically doesn't seem to value defense and gives him crappy support on offense on a regular basis. In short, he's playing well, he's playing hard, but his team sucks. We have lost to the Bucks and the Wizards recently. That would be enough to make me mad right there. Danny is human and he's going to crack a little bit. He has the right to get angry sometimes and as a human being has the right to make a mistake every now and then.

    No one should try to break down down into some Spiderman shirt wearing geek (I use the term geek in the best possible way here) because we don't know him and as a person he has the right to be more complex than that. This is why I don't get emotionally attached to athletes and try to avoid knowing too much about their lives.

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  • Einstein
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit

    Danny is giving it his all -- physically, mentally, and emotionally -- to will this team to win. The Pacers are an incredibly frustrating team to "will to win". Danny's left his front teeth and sometimes his knee on the court this season. He has bowed up to Lebron James of all people to take a Pacer's W, when Lebron is clearly the better player. He is the catalyst for what little intensity this team does have.

    When I see his job and what he is doing in this light, I am reluctant to call him out.

    The TV kicking has no value, but, for the obvious team leader, is jawin' a ref here or there always bad?

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  • Major Cold
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit

    I am more worried about TJ's defense than anyone else. If there is one player that worries about his own stats and doesn't hold his own on defense....that would have to be TJ. Or Murphy. I say Murphy steal the rebound from our players 3 times last night. One of the times it was on Danny and Danny looked frustrated.

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  • Hicks
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit

    Originally posted by aceace
    LeBron,Kobe none of the others wait for a dead ball. It's kinda picky to point out and belittle him when this has never been a problem.
    LeBron and Kobe going it does nothing to change my view on the act itself. I don't love either of those players, and if I see either of them doing something like this it certainly won't boost my opinion of them.

    As for Granger, I don't think it's belittling him to express disappointment when he does this. As my title says, I don't want this to become a habit. I never said I know that it will become a habit.

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  • cinotimz
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit

    This is the first year for this team to be Danny's. Hes now being looked to as the leader. As mature as he is, it will be a bit of a learning experience, especially when you consider handling the added responsibility of the whole team on his shoulders-and Im sure thats exactly how it feels to him. You couple that with the losing and its no wonder hes voicing out some frustration-even possibly a bit inappropriately at times.

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  • GrangerRanger
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit



    That's what this thread reminds me of.

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  • BlueNGold
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit

    I hope he doesn't believe that complaining incessantly to the refs is what leading is all about.

    I have not really seen too much yet, but I am not comfortable with the direction things are headed. The fuse just seems a little short and a little hot. Maybe he has a little of his daddy in him. May not be a bad thing...

    Leave a comment:


  • Haggard
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit

    I think it could be a little early for this..

    He hasn't shown this in the past even when compared to a lot of the stars he would seem to complain the least.

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  • Naptown_Seth
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit

    Originally posted by Hicks
    Not that this is the thread for it, but I think the idea that Danny is "falling to Earth" is nonsense. The guy is tired and playing on a bum leg. He shouldn't be playing. The fact that he's looked good during any part of this stretch at all is impressive.
    I agree with this too. He's an AS player even without that defensive issue. I'm hoping that the ref bickering is born out of the frustration of losing, which has to be catching up to him.

    This is the reason that some of us are concerned with the coaching situation or team makeup, whichever it is. The guy doesn't need insta-help, that's not realistic, but he's gotta see a direction and he needs a positive voice in his head to help keep things in perspective.

    How can Danny not be more frustrated than we are, and most of us are pretty frustrated.

    Leave a comment:


  • Naptown_Seth
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit

    Originally posted by Hicks
    Twice tonight versus the Bucks I have seen Danny fail to get back on defense before first complaining to an official.

    The first instance delayed him "only" about one second, but the second instance (which just happed moments before I came on PD to type this) was for at least 3 seconds, and that's just plain Jermaine O'Neal/Stephen Jackson style garbage right there.

    I really, really hope Danny knocks this crap off quickly. My opinion of him will permanently be down a notch if this becomes a new routine of his.

    Between this and his "kicking incident" after the Wizards game, color me moderately concerned about the direction he seems to be heading in. I hope this all-star appearance isn't going to his head. He's been the ultimate good guy/trooper/ideal lead guy up until now. I'd sincerely hate to see him start to go to a "darker" place now that he's seeing individual success.
    I agree. But let me take it further, and bear in mind I'm Danny=Pip, so I don't criticize him lightly....

    Danny is NOT a good defender. Yet.

    He's great helping out and he often hustles down a play, makes that huge block, etc. But his overall awareness is often poor and he's still making the same one on one mistakes he did in year 1. He gives his guy room, he over-closes out and gets burned, he bites shot fakes like a starving child, and so on.

    Tonight in a perfect example of why I call Rush=McKey, Rush is having a great night sticking with his man and in the 4th he got a lot of time on RJeff with great effect. The problem is you get zero stats out of just making your man not get the ball or forcing him to pass it away over and over.

    So...the Bucks try to get him going by running that freaking high post ball screen they killed them with all night using Chucky V with Danny on him and running Jeff with dribble past it to the left. Rush reads it ahead of time and tries to pull himself around Villi, but there is nothing you can do alone there.

    The problem is that Danny was literally not paying attention. He was looking at another player or the ref or I wasn't sure what, but he did a Saras "hey, was that just a play I was supposed to be in" double take once Jeff was already 10 feet past him. Rush actually almost caught up to Jeff while Danny was still dumbfounded.

    So one guy has a "quiet, modest night" and the other is your high scoring AS. And I'm not trying to just jock Rush here, he's just the best example of good but non-stat producing defense on the team that I use as a benchmark for where Danny needs to get.

    I punted on guys like Troy, Dun, TJ and Graham getting there long ago. But I expect more from Danny. There is no excuse for this on a play like that. With his length and Rush's awareness the play should have gone so that Danny went with Jeff, denied his turn jumper and with Rush denying the return pass to Villi the Bucks would have been forced to recycle the play. I saw Rush do just that later on a different PnR when he was forced onto the taller player (deny return pass on a PnR).


    Danny has been great, he's grown his game and by far the biggest knock last year on him was going off dribble, drawing fouls and passing the ball. He improved that stuff a ton which is why he's an AS. I'm just saying that he's not done yet because to truly be Danny=Pip he's going to have to take some cues from how Rush defends.

    If there is one thing that makes you wish Artest had stayed it's this, because that first year Danny was learning how to one on one defend from a master. And if he can get to Rush's level then you could really hurt a lot of teams who count on big scoring from the 2-3.



    PS - Danny's defense still destroys the defense we are getting out of the PG spot; it's an insult to the word defense to put it in that sentence even.

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  • BRushWithDeath
    replied
    Re: I do not want to see this become a habit

    Originally posted by aceace
    LeBron,Kobe none of the others wait for a dead ball. It's kinda picky to point out and belittle him when this has never been a problem.
    Comparing him to LeBron and Kobe is silly.

    Leave a comment:

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